Fricking Earth Day Again!

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xris
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 01:29 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
That video is about scientists suppressing any notion of intelligent design. I am not advocating that. I just wanted to show you how "open" the scientific community really is. You believe that because the word scientist applies to someone, he is automatically a honest searcher of the truth.
This was a one sided opinion on certain teachers advocating the creationists point of view..It was biased and only gave one side, how can that be a good example? Believe it or not creationism is not on any school curriculum, they can go to church to be taught legends and fairy tales, facts are for schools.Would a priest keep his job if he told his congregation the scriptures where fairy stories?
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 01:44 pm
@EmperorNero,
This is not about religion. It is about careers being destroyed for going against dogma.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 01:58 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
This is not about religion. It is about careers being destroyed for going against dogma.
Its about children being protected from dogma.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 02:15 pm
@xris,
xris;61300 wrote:
Its about children being protected from dogma.


I'm not talking about that now. I'm talking about the scientific community. This thread is about science.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 02:35 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
I'm not talking about that now. I'm talking about the scientific community. This thread is about science.
I think you will find it is you that changed the subject..not I.It does give the observer clues on your views about scientists rather the validity of their claims.They appear to be your enemy and their approach to creation must be relevant to you, or it would not have been brought up.
I admire scientists their independent thoughts and you appear to have the opinion they are all charlatans and mercenary.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 02:42 pm
@xris,
xris;61307 wrote:
I think you will find it is you that changed the subject..not I.It does give the observer clues on your views about scientists rather the validity of their claims.They appear to be your enemy and their approach to creation must be relevant to you, or it would not have been brought up.
I admire scientists their independent thoughts and you appear to have the opinion they are all charlatans and mercenary.


Creationism is not a religious theory at all. And I'm not a creationist.
It's that the "scientific" community suppresses certain views from being expressed, because they don't like them.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 02:59 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
Creationism is not a religious theory at all. And I'm not a creationist.
It's that the "scientific" community suppresses certain views from being expressed, because they don't like them.
Its not a matter of expressing your views its imposing them on others.Would you allow an atheist to give a sermon on the horrors of faith, a witch doctor the power to treat in hospitals? You are not allowed to teach creationism as a scientific fact in schools...If you do,you will get the boot.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 03:04 pm
@xris,
xris;61312 wrote:
Its not a matter of expressing your views its imposing them on others.Would you allow an atheist to give a sermon on the horrors of faith, a witch doctor the power to treat in hospitals? You are not allowed to teach creationism as a scientific fact in schools...If you do,you will get the boot.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. This is about global warming, remember? I'm talking about science, not schools. The fact that people lose their jobs for saying certain things. Creationism in science is not religion, it just means that you think that a cause was not random, for example finding a pyramid, scientists will believe that it was created and not that it was formed by wind and incidental causes. This is a valid scientific explanation in some cases.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 05:00 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
Creationism is not a religious theory at all.


Creationism is completely religious. That's the entire purpose of promoting the concept: to reintroduce religious concepts to the center of our social life.

Creationism/ID is not science. The notion was invented to challenge scientific theories with religious belief directly. You would do well to investigate the history of Creationism.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 4 May, 2009 05:44 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;61327 wrote:
Creationism is completely religious. That's the entire purpose of promoting the concept: to reintroduce religious concepts to the center of our social life.

Creationism/ID is not science. The notion was invented to challenge scientific theories with religious belief directly.


Nope.



____________
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 06:33 am
@EmperorNero,
That's not what creationism means. Creationism means just explaining a phenomenon being created as opposed to explaining it came randomly into being. If you stumble around in Egypt, and you come across a pyramid, you would explain it as created by an intelligence. You would not explain it as crated by random events such as wind and sandstorms. That's what the word means. Created by a intelligent designer. Creation-ism. It has nothing to do with religion or Christianity. It's a valid scientific term like digital (expressed in discontinuous values) or relative (depending on something else).
It was banned from the scientific community. I don't know why. But as a scientist you can't ever explain anything as created, even if that is the logic conclusion. It costs you your job. Everything must be explained as come into being randomly.

But that's not why I brought it up. My point was the the scientific community is entirely intolerant to certain ideas. Suppressing certain explanations because they go against narrow political ideology is as bad as medieval church dogma. Where would science be without freedom of thought? It's saying this explanation is ok, but if you even mention this one you are fired. If an explanation is bad, it will quickly be discredited.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 08:11 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
That's not what creationism means. Creationism means just explaining a phenomenon being created as opposed to explaining it came randomly into being. If you stumble around in Egypt, and you come across a pyramid, you would explain it as created by an intelligence. You would not explain it as crated by random events such as wind and sandstorms. That's what the word means. Created by a intelligent designer. Creation-ism. It has nothing to do with religion or Christianity. It's a valid scientific term like digital (expressed in discontinuous values) or relative (depending on something else).
It was banned from the scientific community. I don't know why. But as a scientist you can't ever explain anything as created, even if that is the logic conclusion. It costs you your job. Everything must be explained as come into being randomly.

But that's not why I brought it up. My point was the the scientific community is entirely intolerant to certain ideas. Suppressing certain explanations because they go against narrow political ideology is as bad as medieval church dogma. Where would science be without freedom of thought? It's saying this explanation is ok, but if you even mention this one you are fired. If an explanation is bad, it will quickly be discredited.
Creationists deny evolution ,they are the boggy men.creationist have no value in academia, they rely on faith not science.This is from someone who proposes intelligent design, me.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 08:57 am
@xris,
xris;61400 wrote:
Creationists deny evolution ,they are the boggy men.


Evolution is a theory, it means explaining something came into being by random cause. In an open scientific community, you should be able to deny it.
If you stumble around in Egypt, and you come across a pyramid, you would say: I bet that was formed by sandstorms and random forces of nature, not an intelligent designer.

xris;61400 wrote:
creationist have no value in academia,


So we should fire people for suggesting it? Creationism means just explaining a phenomenon being created as opposed to explaining it came randomly into being. It does not need to have anything to do with religion. It is just an explanation. If an explanation is bad, it will quickly be discredited.

xris;61400 wrote:
they rely on faith not science.


No they don't. It has nothing to do with faith. It has nothing to do with religion or Christianity. It's a valid scientific term like digital (expressed in discontinuous values) or relative (depending on something else).
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 12:26 pm
@EmperorNero,
Evolution is a theory that is not written in stone, it can be questioned and revised.Creation is faith it can not be questioned...it has no reason it only has faith.You are a fundamentalist admit it...
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 02:03 pm
@xris,
xris;61429 wrote:
Evolution is a theory that is not written in stone, it can be questioned and revised.Creation is faith it can not be questioned...it has no reason it only has faith.You are a fundamentalist admit it...


Why is this so hard to grasp? Don't you see my words?
Creationism means just explaining a phenomenon being created as opposed to explaining it came randomly into being.
It's not about religion. It can be, but it's not in itself.

Answer this: You see something on this screen, how do you explain that?
a) It was created by an intelligent designer.
b) It came into being randomly, by a random number generator.
If you picked a), you deny evolution and you are a boggy man.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 02:16 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:

Creationism means just explaining a phenomenon being created
It's not about religion. It can be, but it's not in itself.


Again, educate yourself. Investigate the history of creationism. Instead of just saying "nope - I'm right, you're wrong" check up on the matter. Saying obviously untrue things, such as the claim that creationism is not about religion, only makes you appear, well, foolish.

PBS has a wonderful documentary on the matter. But if that is out of reach, you could, at the very least, check the Wiki article:
Creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 02:20 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;61446 wrote:
Again, educate yourself. Investigate the history of creationism. Instead of just saying "nope - I'm right, you're wrong" check up on the matter. Saying obviously untrue things, such as the claim that creationism is not about religion, only makes you appear, well, foolish.

PBS has a wonderful documentary on the matter. But if that is out of reach, you could, at the very least, check the Wiki article:
Creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


LOL Wikipedia. Written by hippies. Gimme a break.
That is incorrect.
You explain me why creation-ism means something else than "created". What does that have to with God?

And what does it matter? So you think that some ideas should not be allowed to be spoken,
that scientists should lose their job for suggesting them?
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 02:32 pm
@EmperorNero,
So much for knowledge and the search for truth.

(Wikipedia was founded by Libertarians, not hippies, bro)
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 02:35 pm
@EmperorNero,
So you think that some ideas should not be allowed to be spoken,
that scientists should lose their job for suggesting them?
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Tue 5 May, 2009 02:41 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
So you think that some ideas should not be allowed to be spoken,
that scientists should lose their job for suggesting them?


Did I ever say such a thing?

People should be able to say whatever they like in most cases. Don't yell fire in a building, for example.

As for scientists like Behe: yes, they should lose their jobs. He taught nonsense science - he taught religion instead of science, and intentionally ignored scientific evidence for the sake of his precious "irreducible complexity" which is nonsense and has been thoroughly proved incorrect.

But I do not expect you to care much about the facts of the matter. I imagine you think hippies fired him or something.
 
 

 
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