Fricking Earth Day Again!

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EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 04:56 am
@xris,
xris;101205 wrote:
Sorry but your wrong again.They still call it global warming, a few refer to it as climate change but that is only because global warming is causing climate change. A few areas are getting colder due to these climate changes but the sea, the air is globally getting warmer. For you to deny the accepted and fully agreed facts is , to put it mildly, nutty.Global warming, photography, pictures, photos, climate change, impact, science, weather, arctic, antarctica, climate zones, glacier, arctic warming, antarctica warming, documentation, effects, effects of climate change, paleoclimate, mountain glacier


Okay, how do you know this is caused by man?

And why do you think the supposed solution is taxing you? Why has nobody proposed that giving China filters for their coal plants would have greater effect and cost less.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 05:24 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;101206 wrote:
Okay, how do you know this is caused by man?

And why do you think the supposed solution is taxing you? Why has nobody proposed that giving China filters for their coal plants would have greater effect and cost less.
Now you have moved on from if to why, that is amazing. The Chinese coal fired plants are the most efficient and clean, cleaner than American or the Polish ones. American industry is the dirtiest in the world, so look there first. Do you deny China has the right to become industrialised?

No taxation is another ploy, if it is not used to help reduce our emissions, its wrong. Most extra taxes are used for wind farms etc.

Constant growth is our problem , if we don't curb our desires we will kill ourselves.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 05:43 am
@EmperorNero,
Well, I realize there is no way of convincing you otherwise if you think places that had snow now don't.
But maybe I can make it understandable that some other part of this scheme don't make sense. There's enough that doesn't fit reality.
I really don't think Chinese coal plants are cleaner than American ones, especially since they don't give a damn about what they emit. I wish very much for China to become industrialized. But this is a very different debate. I wanted to illustrate that the supposed solutions are not helping the apparent problem.
Have you ever wondered that it is pretty unlikely that solving global warming means giving a lot of money to the people who sell global warming now? It's not too late and we don't have a lot of time. We are right between. And what we have to do is give money and power to people who came up with global warming. What a coincidence, eh?

Those taxes are not used for wind farms. A least there are not more wind farms because of those taxes. It just enhances the power of politicians. But it's more about justifying intrusions in your life than money. Only a global government can save us from doom! Yes.

I take my chances with the death of humanity from some controversial doomsday theory before I let the ruling elite get all power and control in exchange for saving us. There is lots of space and lots of capacity for more people. We just can't imagine that now. It's like the person in 1900 New York. If he worried about people in 2000, what would he worry about? Probably: Where would people get enough horses? And what would they do about all the horseshit? Horse pollution was bad in 1900, think how much worse it would be a century later, with so many more people riding horses?
But the future is not a linear continuation of today. It has never been. Nobody foresaw the personal computer in 1980. Nobody foresaw the internet in 1990. But we know what's going to plague humanity in 2100?
The worst thing we can do is stifling progress by population control. Then we are sure to stay on this little planet, not expand into the solar system where there are lots of resources. And have a hierarchical society with aristocrats and rightless plebs.

In the 1970's for example there were predictions of "Global Cooling", scientists noted a cooling trend from about 1940 that led to a scientific consensus of global cooling and perhaps leading to a new "Ice Age", this is now science that is being refuted as an instance where they say scientists misinterpreted the Data. They have gone back and reexamined all the data that they could find and said that they were mistaken about their conclusions.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 06:22 am
@EmperorNero,
I give you examples and you talk about horse ship, i give up.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 06:26 am
@EmperorNero,
I've been addressing each of your points. What examples do you want me to respond to?
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 06:42 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;101221 wrote:
I've been addressing each of your points. What examples do you want me to respond to?
The arctic, and the sea temperatures.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 06:56 am
@xris,
xris;101225 wrote:
The arctic, and the sea temperatures.


You are saying they are going up? I don't think so.
Temperatures have been going down since 1998.

Edit: But I guess there is only left to agree to disagree.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 07:28 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;101227 wrote:
You are saying they are going up? I don't think so.
Temperatures have been going down since 1998.

Edit: But I guess there is only left to agree to disagree.
So the arctic is decreasing every year because the temperature is going down..ummm Where did you get that information from?Warmest Arctic temperatures for 2,000 years, says new study - CNN.com
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 07:46 am
@xris,
xris;101235 wrote:
So the arctic is decreasing every year because the temperature is going down..ummm Where did you get that information from?Warmest Arctic temperatures for 2,000 years, says new study - CNN.com


Here for example, a chart of global temperatures:
http://junkscience.com/MSU_Temps/All_Comp.png

They don't go up.
And if they did how do you know it's because of carbon emissions?
And if it were, ow do you know that giving money to Al Gore helps it?
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 08:47 am
@EmperorNero,
But your chart is showing its rising, again you dont answer my question but give me chart that confirms my claim, are you OK. Whats Al Gore got to do with it:perplexed:?
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 08:54 am
@xris,
xris;101251 wrote:
But your chart is showing its rising, again you dont answer my question but give me chart that confirms my claim, are you OK. Whats Al Gore got to do with it:perplexed:?


Al Gore is the guy who is selling global warming.
I'm not sure what questions you want me to answer.
I value your participation, but we seem to talk at cross purposes.
I mean, you say "look it's getting warm, how can you deny that", and I'm saying "look it's getting cold, how can you deny that".
How could we figure out who is right?
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 01:03 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;101254 wrote:
Al Gore is the guy who is selling global warming.
I'm not sure what questions you want me to answer.
I value your participation, but we seem to talk at cross purposes.
I mean, you say "look it's getting warm, how can you deny that", and I'm saying "look it's getting cold, how can you deny that".
How could we figure out who is right?
but you have not shown me it is getting colder, have you?
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 01:50 pm
@xris,
xris;101309 wrote:
but you have not shown me it is getting colder, have you?


I could show you a few articles.
Guess what? Antarctica's getting colder, not warmer | csmonitor.com
Br-r-r! Where did global warming go? - The Boston Globe
But you can easily find some that say the opposite, so that's really leading us nowhere.
That's why I wanted to talk about the spirit of the idea - the stuff about horseshit. :sarcastic:
Like that there is one of these environmental doomsday theories every few years or so.
That we should be very suspicious when the supposed solution handing over money and control to the people who are the big believers in global warming.
That those solutions don't do a thing, so what do they matter.
Etc.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 2 Nov, 2009 02:08 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;101319 wrote:
I could show you a few articles.
Guess what? Antarctica's getting colder, not warmer | csmonitor.com
Br-r-r! Where did global warming go? - The Boston Globe
But you can easily find some that say the opposite, so that's really leading us nowhere.
That's why I wanted to talk about the spirit of the idea - the stuff about horseshit. :sarcastic:
Like that there is one of these environmental doomsday theories every few years or so.
That we should be very suspicious when the supposed solution handing over money and control to the people who are the big believers in global warming.
That those solutions don't do a thing, so what do they matter.
Etc.
Did you actually read the first link? again you appear to be attempting to prove my point.

The other one is a lone Russian making claims without support and a news reporter who is twisting the facts for editorial reasons. Is that the best you can do? I have admitted global warming kicks up anomalies in the weather pattern and may even cause another ice age. It does not take away the fact that the world is getting hotter. Why do you think the north pole will be devoid of ice in ten years? Because its getting colder:perplexed:
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 01:42 am
@xris,
xris;101326 wrote:
Did you actually read the first link? again you appear to be attempting to prove my point.

The other one is a lone Russian making claims without support and a news reporter who is twisting the facts for editorial reasons. Is that the best you can do? I have admitted global warming kicks up anomalies in the weather pattern and may even cause another ice age. It does not take away the fact that the world is getting hotter. Why do you think the north pole will be devoid of ice in ten years? Because its getting colder:perplexed:


No, it's just two articles I googled in a few minutes. I went through this before and I know no article will ever change anyones mind about the raw facts. As in is it getting warmer, colder or more extreme or not.
Maybe we should take at this the other way around. What was the process that brought you to believe in global warming? Take me through it.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 08:09 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;101398 wrote:
No, it's just two articles I googled in a few minutes. I went through this before and I know no article will ever change anyones mind about the raw facts. As in is it getting warmer, colder or more extreme or not.
Maybe we should take at this the other way around. What was the process that brought you to believe in global warming? Take me through it.
Is this a google competition? Take you through what? the realisation that man is intent on destroying itself? That our parasitic nature is killing the planet? When did I realise that certain parts of humanity desire more and more and ignore the consequences. It came to me as a youth but the consequences of our greed and the results such as the ozone disappearing and the earth warming to the point it will eventually kill us all. Ten years ago, more for the ozone problem. How relevant is my epiphany?
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 08:13 am
@EmperorNero,
That's what I meant, I didn't want this to turn into a google competition.

So you are saying that the theory sort of fits your mindset? And you criticize me for not having enough white guilt?

:sarcastic:
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 08:33 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;101447 wrote:
That's what I meant, I didn't want this to turn into a google competition.

So you are saying that the theory sort of fits your mindset? And you criticize me for not having enough white guilt?

:sarcastic:
The evidence is there to be examined and when 95% of accepted scientific evidence confirms that we have global warming, then my logic tells me we are guilty as charged. Simples.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 08:48 am
@xris,
xris;101456 wrote:
The evidence is there to be examined and when 95% of accepted scientific evidence confirms that we have global warming, then my logic tells me we are guilty as charged. Simples.


How can you say that 95% of accepted scientific evidence confirms your theory? Why that number? What's does 'accepted' mean? And why does it matter how many people agree with it. Has science now become an opinion poll?

I really want this to get somewhere xris, but you're not really saying much except that there is global warming and I'm supposed to believe in it because it's true.
Let's say I accept that there has been a temperature rise. Like the link you showed me; where there was snow they now play golf.
How do you know this is because of carbon output? Only like 2% of all carbon emissions into the atmosphere comes from humans.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 11:13 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero;101461 wrote:
How can you say that 95% of accepted scientific evidence confirms your theory? Why that number? What's does 'accepted' mean? And why does it matter how many people agree with it. Has science now become an opinion poll?

I really want this to get somewhere xris, but you're not really saying much except that there is global warming and I'm supposed to believe in it because it's true.
Let's say I accept that there has been a temperature rise. Like the link you showed me; where there was snow they now play golf.
How do you know this is because of carbon output? Only like 2% of all carbon emissions into the atmosphere comes from humans.
You did this to me before, accept we have a world unnaturally warming then you go back and deny it. Accept we have global warming first.
 
 

 
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