Fricking Earth Day Again!

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Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2009 05:21 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
Generalizations, that are impossible to demonstrate, okay. But what else is earth day for?


Earth Day is a day on which people get together to plant trees and consider the state of the environment and their personal responsibility for living harmoniously with our environment.

EmperorNero wrote:
Who doesn't forget about it the next day?


Human beings.

You know, there are people who are involved and even work for environmental groups like Green Peace and the Sierra Club. I would imagine that at least these people do not forget about the environment after Earth Day. I think it is reasonable to assume that at least some people spend time other than Earth Day to consider and care for the environment. And I would be willing to bet that if you look around, even in your own community, you will find evidence of people giving a hoot about the environment on days other than Earth Day.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2009 05:22 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;59827 wrote:
You know, there are people who are involved and even work for environmental groups like Green Peace and the Sierra Club. I would imagine that at least these people do not forget about the environment after Earth Day.


They dont waste their time with gestures.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Fri 24 Apr, 2009 05:24 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
They dont waste their time with gestures.


What do you mean?
 
Elmud
 
Reply Sun 26 Apr, 2009 06:58 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos. I heard today, that there are approximately 800 million automobiles on this planet. Unreal. Do you think that one day, hopefully soon, that we will realize a collective will to implement societal change in regard to restoring the air that we breath? Just curious on what your ideas would be for a positive change.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Sun 26 Apr, 2009 07:03 pm
@Elmud,
I think there is a collective will, however weak that will may be. The real problem is getting the collective will to value quality of life over the bottom line of finance.
 
Elmud
 
Reply Sun 26 Apr, 2009 08:35 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
I think there is a collective will, however weak that will may be. The real problem is getting the collective will to value quality of life over the bottom line of finance.

Maybe an understanding that we are all interdependent on each other, and not only that, but also interdependent on all organisms that exist, will create a "positive" attitude toward change that will replace the negative attitude of , like you say, personal materialistic gain, and the disregard of what that really has cost.If that makes any sense.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Sun 26 Apr, 2009 09:14 pm
@Elmud,
Makes perfect sense to me. I'll be the first to admit that, in practice, I often ignore that basic truth of universal interconnectedness, but I also think that if we can firmly establish the notion in theory, that we can be most effective in increasing universal practice. Once the ideas are there, people will begin to naturally trend toward the implementation of those ideas.

Of course, nothing beats the power of moral example. So, I try, I gently encourage others to try and be more aware of their actions. Don't throw the fast food bag out the window, ect. Don't eat fast food, ect.

Oh, and I think my earlier line contains an important inaccuracy: Instead of saying
"The real problem is getting the collective will to value quality of life over the bottom line of finance."

I should have said:

"The real problem is getting the collective to recognize that bottom line finance is not the same as quality of life and that sometimes the bottom life should be sacrificed for the sake of quality of life."

Essentially, we need to get over consumerism.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 12:01 am
@EmperorNero,
You wont stop people wanting to make a quick buck out of polluting the air, essentially your dealing with selfish greedy people who dont give a hoot for the enviroment which in my opinion is stupidity aswell as suicidal.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 11:20 am
@Caroline,
Caroline:
There are always going to be greedy people who want to make a quick buck. The key is probably going to be a gradual change in base ideology and legality on an intergenerational timescale. That and the fact that one day even greedy people will understand environmental stewardship to be a necessity for life itself. Take the example I used earlier in the thread, that of Civil Rights in American and for that matter most of the industrialized world. It took several generations to go from see non-white people as subhuman to for instance (and I'm not saying this is an example of a cured system) having a non-white president. There are still people in the world who traffic in slavery, there are still supremacist groups who would erradicate or subjugate non-white people, but the general population, even the greedy ones wouldn't take it as given that there are equal-ish rights, at least in the legal sense between the races. The same will have to happen for the Environment if it is to happen at all.

Cheers,
Russ
 
Caroline
 
Reply Mon 27 Apr, 2009 11:54 am
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:
Caroline:
There are always going to be greedy people who want to make a quick buck. The key is probably going to be a gradual change in base ideology and legality on an intergenerational timescale. That and the fact that one day even greedy people will understand environmental stewardship to be a necessity for life itself. Take the example I used earlier in the thread, that of Civil Rights in American and for that matter most of the industrialized world. It took several generations to go from see non-white people as subhuman to for instance (and I'm not saying this is an example of a cured system) having a non-white president. There are still people in the world who traffic in slavery, there are still supremacist groups who would erradicate or subjugate non-white people, but the general population, even the greedy ones wouldn't take it as given that there are equal-ish rights, at least in the legal sense between the races. The same will have to happen for the Environment if it is to happen at all.

Cheers,
Russ

Yeah I know Russ, but what if it takes too long for people to realise, what if then it's too late? I hope that it wont come to that but if you say these things take time, time is something we dont have alot of. I know there will always be greed and I understand why because I felt it myself once and it can easily consume one to the point of blindness, for some reason i never became that person, (greedy), but what a waste of a life, to be consumed with greed, not be aware of the negative impact it has on others or just too selfish to care and go to the grave with what? Nothing!

---------- Post added at 12:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 PM ----------

Caroline wrote:
Yeah I know Russ, but what if it takes too long for people to realise, what if then it's too late? I hope that it wont come to that but if you say these things take time, time is something we dont have alot of. I know there will always be greed and I understand why because I felt it myself once and it can easily consume one to the point of blindness, for some reason i never became that person, (greedy), but what a waste of a life, to be consumed with greed, not be aware of the negative impact it has on others or just too selfish to care and go to the grave with what? Nothing!
Im just whinging but when I see someone, an adult just chuck something on the floor or in a river and not bat an eyelid, i ask myself what are these people thinking and off I go again.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 06:15 pm
@EmperorNero,
Earth Day predictions of 1970. The reason you shouldn’t believe Earth Day predictions of 2009.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 07:23 pm
@EmperorNero,
You are actually making a fallacy of inductive inference. Just because what was said in 1970 did not come true, does not mean that what is said in 2009 will not be true in 40 years. Therefore, you cannot make the claim that there is no truth in environmental scares based on this use of inductive reasoning to predict the future.

Remember 1970 was before all of the environmental regulations and the EPA happened during the Nixon administration. Had it not been for the endangered species act, the Clean Air and Clean Water Act, many of those things could have become a reality. Also, had we not discovered more oil since 1970, we would have probably used up all that was thought to be left at that time.
 
hue-man
 
Reply Wed 29 Apr, 2009 07:28 pm
@EmperorNero,
I agree that these holidays are kind of senseless and unnecessary to me. For example, valentine's day for love, mother's day for mothers, etc. etc. I believe that we should value these ideals throughout the year and not just on some particular day. However, I think that many of these holidays exist in order to remind us of our values because we live fast paced lifestyles and we tend to forget.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:38 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;60615 wrote:
You are actually making a fallacy of inductive inference. Just because what was said in 1970 did not come true, does not mean that what is said in 2009 will not be true in 40 years. Therefore, you cannot make the claim that there is no truth in environmental scares based on this use of inductive reasoning to predict the future.


Yeah, you're right. I know that's not a sound logical argument. But I wanted to make a point.
If everybody closely follows the rules of logic, all of this environmental stuff is unknowable.
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 06:13 am
@EmperorNero,
I honestly believe with the sentiment we see now about there being no problem with global warming we are doomed.If after 99% of scientists attribute this accepted catastrophic global warming down to man burning fossil fuels,what in the hell will convince them.
I don't have a car, my wife does but i don't and that is purely down to the fact i don't think its necessary in the modern climate to have two cars in a family if its not absolutely essential.
People are waking up to the facts we are destroying our planet, maybe too late but they are.This day in particular is important ,you cant judge it with fathers day or valentines day, it stands out to make us think.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 07:08 am
@xris,
xris;60661 wrote:
I honestly believe with the sentiment we see now about there being no problem with global warming we are doomed.If after 99% of scientists attribute this accepted catastrophic global warming down to man burning fossil fuels,what in the hell will convince them.


It's a far smaller percentage of scientists than that, maybe not even half. And most scientists know that it's rubbish, very few scientists dare to say that it's rubbish, because anyone dares to say none of this adds up gets penalized and moved to smaller offices with no daylight.
Global warming is a myth, invented for political reasons.

1. From 1715 sun activity took up again after the coldest period in 10.000 years, the temperature in central England (was the only place that was measured at that time) rose by four degrees Fahrenheit in 35 years. That is a rate a rate of warming nine times as fast as the warming in the whole of the 20th century, 1.3 degrees. And that was before the industrial revolution began and we could have anything to do with it.

2. In the last four years the earth has been global cooling, at a rate that if it continued we would be in an ice age by 2020.

3. The amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere is only half of what the computer models that this entire case for global warming bases on are using.

A few days ago Al Gore was to speak before congress. The speaker for the other side, Lord Christopher Monckton, was banned from speaking, after being flown in from London, because he would have embarrassed Al Gores lies.
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 07:55 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
It's a far smaller percentage of scientists than that, maybe not even half. And most scientists know that it's rubbish, very few scientists dare to say that it's rubbish, because anyone dares to say none of this adds up gets penalized and moved to smaller offices with no daylight.
Global warming is a myth, invented for political reasons.

1. From 1715 sun activity took up again after the coldest period in 10.000 years, the temperature in central England (was the only place that was measured at that time) rose by four degrees Fahrenheit in 35 years. That is a rate a rate of warming nine times as fast as the warming in the whole of the 20th century, 1.3 degrees. And that was before the industrial revolution began and we could have anything to do with it.

2. In the last four years the earth has been global cooling, at a rate that if it continued we would be in an ice age by 2020.

3. The amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere is only half of what the computer models that this entire case for global warming bases on are using.

A few days ago Al Gore was to speak before congress. The speaker for the other side, Lord Christopher Monckton, was banned from speaking, after being flown in from London, because he would have embarrassed Al Gores lies.
Ive been here so many times with what i would call, if i was being polite ,exaggerations of the truth.
Scientists are not scared nor are they determined to lie to the public.If you search any reasonable scientific magazines your find that it is over 90% of scientists.One period in recent history does not make the whole of the global warming issue proved wrong for heavens sake.Sea temperatures ocean acidity,glaciers disappearing,core samples from the arctic tell the story, no other time in the worlds history has the temperature risen so quickly and so dramatically.World temperatures are dropping ? tell me where you do get your information?
 
Khethil
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 08:03 am
@EmperorNero,
Wow,

The purpose of this observance is to increase awareness, disseminate information and (in some cases) raise funds for various environmental initiatives. It's not designed to solve anything; isn't intended to 'fix the planet' or anything of the sort.

Whether or not its doing anything is up for grabs, but I've found that the more people are aware of the facts in any situation, the more likely they are to give *it* their everyday attention. More attention to the problems facing our planet is a good idea in any context.

I guess I'm just unsure how this sort of thing is cause for anger or disgust.

Thanks
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 08:06 am
@xris,
xris;60673 wrote:
Ive been here so many times with what i would call, if i was being polite ,exaggerations of the truth.
Scientists are not scared nor are they determined to lie to the public.If you search any reasonable scientific magazines your find that it is over 90% of scientists.One period in recent history does not make the whole of the global warming issue proved wrong for heavens sake.Sea temperatures ocean acidity,glaciers disappearing,core samples from the arctic tell the story, no other time in the worlds history has the temperature risen so quickly and so dramatically.World temperatures are dropping ? tell me where you do get your information?


I would like you to listen to this. Download the audio file, and jump to minute 18. Listen to the end.
Then listen to thisfrom the beginning, but you can jump 3 minutes in.

If you do that, I like to hear your response.
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 08:09 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
I would like you to listen to this. Download the audio file, and jump to minute 18. Listen to the end.
Then listen to thisfrom the beginning, but you can jump 3 minutes in.

If you do that, I like to hear your response.
Climate change: A guide for the perplexed - environment - 16 May 2007 - New Scientist if you read this..
 
 

 
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