Truth

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Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 04:07 am
@froach,
froach;141831 wrote:
Pepijn Sweep

no wonder I was a bit looking at someone else belief too closely
I might aswell trying to work out what someone else means

time for a question :detective:

what did you mean?


:bigsmile:T 4 A:
did y ever meet a person who has't told a lie ?
how y see Un-Truth in information ?
God* is not Con-Sistence; mpo
* ABRAMIC

Yours, Pepijn Sweep LL.a
alis SH:lol:
 
froach
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 04:47 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
I find liars are made, so possibley new born babies aren't liars?

for anything to be true doesn't it also have to be false?

If you learn god from another person do you have their belief or your own?

though I could have missed your point for the reason below:lol:


:detective:argh text talk can someone give me a quick run down or lead me to the thread that tells the information?
 
Fido
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 08:47 am
@pondfish,
pondfish;141823 wrote:
You need to understand ,

Truth is obvious.

It is always in front of you.

Humans are refused to see it.

Why?. You have to find your own reasons.

if i explained with words , you believe or do not believe that crap.

Best way out is asking questions not answering with another belief.:detective:

Nonsense... What is always evident is not always true, and what is true is seldom evident...Philosophy, if it teaches one thing well, it is to peer beyond the veil of the obvious and evident to the true situation at hand... Isn't that the point of Occam's razor, for example, to exclude spectral evidence in favor of simple cause and effect that can bear demonstration...It was once obvious that people of another race were animals... It was once obvious that the sun rose in the East and set in the West and between times travelled through the sky...If we know better it is because we have learned to think better....And we do not answer questions with another belief... We do substitute a more workable and coherent theory of reality for another, but in every case, one more verfiable with evidence...
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 09:13 am
@Fido,
Fido;141886 wrote:
Nonsense... What is always evident is not always true, and what is true is seldom evident...Philosophy, if it teaches one thing well, it is to peer beyond the veil of the obvious and evident to the true situation at hand... Isn't that the point of Occam's razor, for example, to exclude spectral evidence in favor of simple cause and effect that can bear demonstration...It was once obvious that people of another race were animals... It was once obvious that the sun rose in the East and set in the West and between times travelled through the sky...If we know better it is because we have learned to think better....And we do not answer questions with another belief... We do substitute a more workable and coherent theory of reality for another, but in every case, one more verfiable with evidence...


What is evident is always true. But you have to be one of the initiate to see it is evident.
 
pondfish
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 02:28 pm
@kennethamy,
Obvious here means without using your existing belief system. your belief corrupt even the obvious.

Think.

Observe the actions. Reasons (evidence) are always by product of belief you hold. it is useless.

Truth is so simple it does not exist in one sense.

Human mind need to be empty to see everything in its natural form.
 
froach
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 02:53 pm
@pondfish,
would that understanding be through feeling not predefined meaningless beliefs?

---------- Post added 03-21-2010 at 03:59 PM ----------

Fido;141886 wrote:
Nonsense... What is always evident is not always true, and what is true is seldom evident...Philosophy, if it teaches one thing well, it is to peer beyond the veil of the obvious and evident to the true situation at hand... Isn't that the point of Occam's razor, for example, to exclude spectral evidence in favor of simple cause and effect that can bear demonstration...It was once obvious that people of another race were animals... It was once obvious that the sun rose in the East and set in the West and between times travelled through the sky...If we know better it is because we have learned to think better....And we do not answer questions with another belief... We do substitute a more workable and coherent theory of reality for another, but in every case, one more verfiable with evidence...


theroies are just that theroies aren't they?

nonsense you say, but isn't that just a belief?
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 03:44 pm
@pondfish,
pondfish;141965 wrote:
Obvious here means without using your existing belief system. your belief corrupt even the obvious.

Think.

Observe the actions. Reasons (evidence) are always by product of belief you hold. it is useless.

Truth is so simple it does not exist in one sense.

Human mind need to be empty to see everything in its natural form.


:bigsmile:I am oblivious to y'r believe system. Should it matter ? Truth will be the same probably without your opinion; esp. so cryptic it's hard to understand.

Yours in thought
Pepijn Sweep
:sarcastic:
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 03:53 pm
@pondfish,
pondfish;141965 wrote:

Observe the actions. [...]
Truth is so simple it does not exist in one sense.


Are you saying the actions, too, do not exist in one sense?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 03:55 pm
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;141992 wrote:
Are you saying the actions, too, do not exist in one sense?


Every word has at least two senses. The sense in which it is true, and the sense in which it is false. Take the word, "animal". There is a sense of "animal" in which it is true that elephants are animals, and a sense in which it is false that elephants are animals. And, so on.
 
PappasNick
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 04:07 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;141993 wrote:
Every word has at least two senses. The sense in which it is true, and the sense in which it is false. Take the word, "animal". There is a sense of "animal" in which it is true that elephants are animals, and a sense in which it is false that elephants are animals. And, so on.


I concur with the general point, though I am inclined to believe that elephants are animals.

I'd like to see more of what pondfish thinks about actions. He tells us to observe them. I wonder to what end, given some of his other provocative statements.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 04:21 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;141993 wrote:
Every word has at least two senses. The sense in which it is true, and the sense in which it is false. Take the word, "animal". There is a sense of "animal" in which it is true that elephants are animals, and a sense in which it is false that elephants are animals. And, so on.


:bigsmile:I am on guard when people use the word "honostly" to much. It's like being with a shop-keeper in a bazar or market. Does the expression "honest to God" mean they are lying to you and me ? Did "God Bless..." turn in curse ?

Pepijn Sweep:detective:
 
Fido
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 08:39 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;141893 wrote:
What is evident is always true. But you have to be one of the initiate to see it is evident.

No... You have it ordered wrongly... What is true is evident, but all that is evident is not necessarily true...The middles ages entertained the collective belief as evident, that the unseen world was literally alive with spiritual forces... Was that correct??? People do not deliberately live in error or persist in errors once found out...Yet we are all trapped by the evident explanation which are no more than theoretical explanations based upon our ignorance...Religion is one such explanation and ordering of reality that appeals to the desires of mankind for certainty in lieu of knowledge...We hold these truths to be self evident is another way of saying the truth will bear no examination, because in fact it is only evident, and beyond proof, and every truth should suffer the process of proof...
 
pondfish
 
Reply Sun 21 Mar, 2010 10:25 pm
@pondfish,
Actions teaches you the beliefs behind it. You can be powerful if you know the weakness of all humans around you , atleast in worst case you can protect yourself.

But main benefit is , it teaches you about your own addiction to your beliefs. Everyone living for their belief not for themself.

All of them. No exception.

When there is no belief , need for questions and answer cease to exist because you aware what is going on with humanity in general.

We are in micro thinking and micro analyzing and wasting all the energy. Broader your perspective , less energy you spent on trivial things.

Humans kill time in various ways. You got fixed amount of time in your life. You can live for you not your belief in that mean time.

May be you can radiate. May be...

All depends on whether you are a source of energy or sink.

if you have beliefs , you become sink. if you do not have beliefs , you become the source of energy.

Because there is nothing to corrupt that energy...

You can be a philosopher just observing human monkey's actions all day...

Clear mind can happen only when you have no beliefs of any sort. There is no need to prove anything correct or wrong. There is nothing to be validated.

Become the catalyst. Become the spark. All start somewhere small.

You can have all the truth you want , it is just that if you have beliefs , you will not like the truth.

Because beliefs are opposite spectrum of truth. Why? Because weak humans will commit suicide if he knows the truth.

So in overall for greater good , humans need beliefs to keep him away from truth. He has to live first. What is the use of truth if he can't live and enjoy?

Observe observe...observe your own babble first!. Smile
 
froach
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 04:13 am
@pondfish,
pondfish;142066 wrote:


You can be a philosopher just observing human monkey's actions all day...


Observe observe...observe your own babble first!. Smile


observe or comment?

comment on obsevations?

mirror or reflect?

reflect on the mirror?

see your own belief ?

see your belief?
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 04:38 am
@pondfish,
Everyone thinks the preacher is saved, but usually he is in the employ of the Devil...Pondfish likes to appear as though he knows it all, but what he says he says for himself as well, and knowledge is hard to come by... So what should poor human do??? Should human roll up in ball on floor and cry for mother??? Should he write like Borris Badenov, and tie all philosophy with Moose and Squirrel to box of Dynamite???

As soon as we say we know we as soon work on our beliefs.. So, What??? The problem is not that people do according to their beliefs as much as that so many people don't know what to believe or what to do...Inaction is as great a problem as inaction, and I will be the first to admit that the true believers have cause the greatest pain in this world...

If people do not at least believe in themselves, in their rights, in their spiritual being then they cannot even defend themselves from agression, and that is where humanity is, with ideals glorified and humanity degraded...People ask the meaning of life who have lost a sense of their own value, and their own place in the grand picture... Such people are liquidated to feed the rest who do have a sense of their value, who never question their beliefs, who never challenge their purpose...
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 04:42 am
@froach,
froach;142123 wrote:
observe or comment?

comment on obsevations?

mirror or reflect?

reflect on the mirror?

see your own belief ?

see your belief?


:bigsmile:Blaue or Green

I thought I spooke in One-Liners, not in fake-dualities. How to respond to these messages. Is there only Truth which is of Value ? How boring. I prefer Honour as a Value. I would use any means (moderated of course...) to defend family, friends and community. I will not lift a Finger to gain land, oil, power or opportunisticly plant a Banner on the Moon or on the Bottum of the Artic sea. Shame.

Thruth = Trust. I choose to start with each In-divi-dual as we like to be called. So I won't respond here no more.

Pepijn Sweep's:cool:
 
froach
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 04:49 am
@Fido,
:nonooo:I suppose if thats what a meant but never mind

rainbows are always prettier why just stick to 2 colours?

fish boy would have us all asimulate like the borg, not for me:nonooo:

we all take a different take on words including me, and his words are an ends to means use the user:a-ok:?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 05:50 am
@PappasNick,
PappasNick;141998 wrote:
I concur with the general point, though I am inclined to believe that elephants are animals.

I'd like to see more of what pondfish thinks about actions. He tells us to observe them. I wonder to what end, given some of his other provocative statements.


But how about the sense in which elephants are not animals?
 
north
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 10:52 am
@kennethamy,
isn't Truth in the end , that in which life depends to exist in the first place ?

the Universe , atomics , molecular structures of things , galaxies , solar systems , planets , the enviroment needed to produce life etc

without any of the above , how does one dwell upon Truth ?
 
froach
 
Reply Mon 22 Mar, 2010 11:07 am
@north,
good question, i will ponder that one myself cheers:bigsmile:
 
 

 
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