If A Tree Fell And Nobody Was There To Hear It Does It Make A Sound?

@Solipsistic Cat,

Solipsistic_Cat wrote:

Well, firstly this isnt a debate, except in the Socratic sense of the word, so there will be no 'winner'.

And my point about grammer was that i dont really know what you meant there, but if i had to take a guess, it would be.... Etc.

why o why do you never make a reply with any input..its always critical never anything of interest ...i have not got a clue what you are opposing or what your opinion is...I leave you with your dead tree that no one heard falling ..and the universe that does exist except in your mind..oh by the way grammar is with an A not an E

@xris,

xris wrote:

why o why do you never make a reply with any input..its always critical never anything of interest ...i have not got a clue what you are opposing or what your opinion is...I leave you with your dead tree that no one heard falling ..and the universe that does exist except in your mind..oh by the way grammar is with an A not an E

Gosh your right, my whole post was illegible

@Zacrates,

That is real good!

@Zacrates,

A sound is made when someone hears it, so no, when a tree falls it does not make a sound unless someone is there to hear it.

@Zacrates,

But if a sound is made when someone hears it, does the deaf man playing a guitar that no one is around to hear, is the guitar silent?

@Theaetetus,

I didn't read all these pages of posts and this could have well been pointed out to all earlier so I'll keep it short.

Short physics lesson;
When a tree falls (or a hand claps or enjoying a Beethoven symphony...), a standing compression wave is created; a 'shock wave' (or, of course, multiples thereof)!
A 'shock wave' is absolutely silent!!
If it acts upon a membrane, such as our eardrum, the wiggles jiggles and bumps of the eardrum are 'translated' in the brain and conceived/perceived as 'sound' (whether Beethoven or a smack in the head, all 'sound' is in the 'mind', as is all 'light/color', 'odors', 'textures', etc..., all percepts).
With no 'perceiver' there is no 'perceived'.
We are One.

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

I didn't read all these pages of posts and this could have well been pointed out to all earlier so I'll keep it short.

Short physics lesson;
When a tree falls (or a hand claps or enjoying a Beethoven symphony...), a standing compression wave is created; a 'shock wave' (or, of course, multiples thereof)!
A 'shock wave' is absolutely silent!!
If it acts upon a membrane, such as our eardrum, the wiggles jiggles and bumps of the eardrum are 'translated' in the brain and conceived/perceived as 'sound' (whether Beethoven or a smack in the head, all 'sound' is in the 'mind', as is all 'light/color', 'odors', 'textures', etc..., all percepts).
With no 'perceiver' there is no 'perceived'.
We are One.

Who is the perceiver ? You ? the maggot creeping in its rotten branches ? This is no man is an island ,no your not the only creature on this planet..If you have life to create a tree you will have listeners. Now if it was a star exploding, if no one was looking would it exist? all these silly questions appear to rule out causes and effect.Any effect has a cause and an effect that one day will be seen or heard.No human, no life then what have we ?no sound to be appreciated no view to admire but it will have sound and views. Appreciation is what would be missing.

@Zacrates,

Though the shock wave itself is silent, can't that be called sound? I hate to have to rely on it, despising arguments based on definitions, but the dictionary describes sound as both:

mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium, traveling in air at a speed of approximately 1087 ft. (331 m) per second at sea level.

As well as:

the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium.

So if a tree were to fall and no-one was around to hear it, it makes one type of sound, but not the other.

@Zacrates,

If a tree makes a sound when somebody is present what is there to stop it from making a sound when a person isn't? It is going through the same action, falling, why wouldn't it make a sound? Unless you feel that the person present creates the sound themself, they hear what they think tey should and that it actually makes no sound.

@Kolbe,

Kolbe;43206 wrote:

Though the shock wave itself is silent, can't that be called sound?

Actually an amalgam of both is more scientific, but the common rabble know nothing of silent shock-waves, they know 'country music' and the 'noise' of munching nachos. To them, 'sound' is 'out there'. Like 'light'. The 'common' understanding/definition seems to be the the implication of the tree falling question.
Most 'know' what sound is, it's what they 'hear'. But that 'sound' is only in their minds.
'Noise' is in the mind, other than that, existence is silent.

@Watchy,

Watchy;43235 wrote:

If a tree makes a sound when somebody is present what is there to stop it from making a sound when a person isn't?

The 'noise' of 'sound' is in the mind of the observer.

Quote:

It is going through the same action, falling, why wouldn't it make a sound?

Did you not read my post. I think that I have explained it.

Quote:

Unless you feel that the person present creates the sound themself,

Observers and perceivers do just that; observe and perceive. We do not 'create'.

Quote:

they hear what they think tey should and that it actually makes no sound.

Uh, right, all in the mind.

@nameless,

So what is sound..do you deny its existance?

@xris,

Another question was there a tree ? no one to see it grow no one to see it fall ???? This is silly academic trivia..

@xris,

xris;43277 wrote:

So what is sound..do you deny its existance?

Everything exists. Existence is contextual. The context of noise/sound is the mind. The more complete definition has been offered already.

xris;43278 wrote:

Another question was there a tree ? no one to see it grow no one to see it fall ???? This is silly academic trivia..

No, rather, it is the Perspective of science, and the 'naive realism' that you are espousing is long refuted by svience. IF 'science' is meaningless to you, then that's fine, I'm just offering the Perspective of scientific critical thought and experimentally increasing knowledge. Whatever your particular view is, it is real and exists. Like all.

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

Everything exists. Existence is contextual. The context of noise/sound is the mind. The more complete definition has been offered already.

No, rather, it is the Perspective of science, and the 'naive realism' that you are espousing is long refuted by svience. IF 'science' is meaningless to you, then that's fine, I'm just offering the Perspective of scientific critical thought and experimentally increasing knowledge. Whatever your particular view is, it is real and exists. Like all.

So the tree existed the tree fell and sounds exists..Sound is the vibration of the surrounding air , the air did vibrate when the tree fell there was sound but no one heard it ..but the sound existed..just as the tree existed..On this principle ,stars billions of light years away are not exploding just because some philosophical reasoning on some distant planet decides its not exploding..Its bizarre.. A rose does not smell a song bird does not sing a sun does not set..

@xris,

xris;43285 wrote:

So the tree existed the tree fell and sounds exists..Sound is the vibration of the surrounding air , the air did vibrate when the tree fell there was sound but no one heard it ..but the sound existed..just as the tree existed..On this principle ,stars billions of light years away are not exploding just because some philosophical reasoning on some distant planet decides its not exploding..Its bizarre.. A rose does not smell a song bird does not sing a sun does not set..

I'm sorry, but you sound confused. Have you had no science education at all?
'That' which is not perceived, does not exist.
The complete definition of the universes, at any moment, is the sum total of all Perspectives at the moment of perception/observation.

Perceiver and perceived are One.

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

I'm sorry, but you sound confused. Have you had no science education at all?
'That' which is not perceived, does not exist.
The complete definition of the universes, at any moment, is the sum total of all Perspectives at the moment of perception/observation.

Perceiver and perceived are One.

Are you serious you are trying to make this a scientific theory..a tree does not make a sound when there is no one there to hear it..scientific..:perplexed: So this planet does not exist because some alien life has not found us?? perceived, is that seen or imagined?

@xris,

xris;43295 wrote:

Are you serious you are trying to make this a scientific theory..a tree does not make a sound when there is no one there to hear it..scientific.. So this planet does not exist because some alien life has not found us?? perceived, is that seen or imagined?

I am, as I have stated, using 'sound' in the common definition/understanding of 'noise' (orderly or otherwise).
No, xris, I'm not making this a theory regarding the propagation of standing pressure waves and the brain's function of 'translating' these silent pressure waves. It's very old news.

If "some alien life" has not perceived us, we do not exist for them! In their 'reality', to their philosophies and sciences, there is no 'us' to contemplate.

Have you missed the multitude of times that I have shown that EVERYTHING EXISTS contextually?
If you can conceive it, if you can imagine it, if you can name it, it exists for you!
The OBSERVER is inherent in the OBSERVATION!
Perceiver and perceived are one and the same!

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

Perceiver and perceived are one and the same!

Erm...no they aren't. A Christian isn't god, a Muslim isn't Allah, I am not the future etc.

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

I am, as I have stated, using 'sound' in the common definition/understanding of 'noise' (orderly or otherwise).
No, xris, I'm not making this a theory regarding the propagation of standing pressure waves and the brain's function of 'translating' these silent pressure waves. It's very old news.

If "some alien life" has not perceived us, we do not exist for them! In their 'reality', to their philosophies and sciences, there is no 'us' to contemplate.

Have you missed the multitude of times that I have shown that EVERYTHING EXISTS contextually?
If you can conceive it, if you can imagine it, if you can name it, it exists for you!
The OBSERVER is inherent in the OBSERVATION!
Perceiver and perceived are one and the same!

So for anything to exist in the scientific world someone has to observe it. It cant be conceived like a black hole, white hole or dark matter.This is quit something, are you planning to write a thesis.

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