If A Tree Fell And Nobody Was There To Hear It Does It Make A Sound?

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Purplesawdust
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 05:09 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;144837 wrote:
1 and 2 appear to contradict each other. So, unless you can say why they don't, how can both be true? You are saying that "sound" has two different meanings. One in which the proposition is true, and the other in which it is false. This is, I suppose, the accepted solution of the problem (or, better, it is supposed to show that the problem really does not exist) but I am dubious. I don't think it is true that "sound" does have those two different meanings. I think it has one meaning: what people hear.


Words do have multiple meanings, you look up sound EX: define:sound - Google Search and you find multiple. I don't understand how you think that one word has only one meaning?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 06:14 pm
@Purplesawdust,
Purplesawdust;144872 wrote:
Words do have multiple meanings, you look up sound EX: define:sound - Google Search and you find multiple. I don't understand how you think that one word has only one meaning?


Words do have multiple meanings, of course. And, maybe so does "sound". The question is whether the solution in terms of ambiguity is a satisfactory solution. Is it true that when the forest in uninhabited, the word "sound" means something different than it means when the forest is uninhabited? Why should it not mean the same thing?
 
Purplesawdust
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 06:42 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;144888 wrote:
Words do have multiple meanings, of course. And, maybe so does "sound". The question is whether the solution in terms of ambiguity is a satisfactory solution. Is it true that when the forest in uninhabited, the word "sound" means something different than it means when the forest is uninhabited? Why should it not mean the same thing?


Because the circumstances changed to warrant such a shift in the definition. It is up to the individual to say that under "such and such" circumstance, this definition is put in place. Which leads me back to square one... :brickwall:
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 08:36 pm
@Purplesawdust,
Purplesawdust;144895 wrote:
Because the circumstances changed to warrant such a shift in the definition. It is up to the individual to say that under "such and such" circumstance, this definition is put in place. Which leads me back to square one... :brickwall:


[CENTER]What caused tree to fall ? Sound of a chain-saw ?
or Sound of Wind ?

Sounds idiot to meself too,
But who says Philophers
are Free of Idiotcy ?

Pepijn Sweep's:perplexed:
[/CENTER]
 
ikurwa89
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 07:22 am
@Zacrates,
If a tree fell and no body was there to hear does it make a sound?

It does and doesn't make a sound. The fact is all the possible outcomes is squeezed into one state, PROVIDED an observer is near by will it then collapse into a single outcome.

Hence, both possibilty(or how ever many possibilities) are all equally possible.

Quantum Theory... Let not common sense fool you xD

 
Purplesawdust
 
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 02:24 pm
@ikurwa89,
ikurwa89;148193 wrote:
If a tree fell and no body was there to hear does it make a sound?

It does and doesn't make a sound. The fact is all the possible outcomes is squeezed into one state, PROVIDED an observer is near by will it then collapse into a single outcome.

Hence, both possibilty(or how ever many possibilities) are all equally possible.

Quantum Theory... Let not common sense fool you xD



Quantum Theory... Now things are getting complicated!
 
Space phil
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 07:40 pm
@Purplesawdust,
Western philosophy can be a waste of time sometimes. However, since Mr. Purplesawdust is expecting me to share my thoughts on this famous "puzzle," I guess I can waste a few seconds.

Given: A tree falls. No one is around to hear it.
Q: Does it make a sound?

A: Scientifically speaking, yes. No matter what it lands on, no matter which way it falls, it's going to make a sound of some kind. It simply can't literally be proven that it made a sound if nobody was there to witness the event and hear it for themselves. I'd make an analogy to compare the situation but... I can't think of a good one. X) lolz.

Anyway, that's my answer.
 
north
 
Reply Tue 13 Apr, 2010 08:19 pm
@Zacrates,
Zacrates;24721 wrote:
If a tree falls and there is nobody to hear it does it make a sound?


of course , simple collison physics

Quote:
Some people say that it doesn't because humans defined the vibrations made by "things" sound, and if the humans aren't there then there is nobody to define those vibrations as sound.


human ego , nothing happens ( in this Universe ) unless we , Humans are involved

Quote:

But then there are people (like me) who say that it does make a sound because it is logical to think so, due to proof we have that is very easy to understand:

1)If a tree fell right next to you would it make a sound?


of course

Quote:
Of course it would, so if you think about it logically, if a tree falls and there is nobody there to hear it it is most likely going to make a sound.


of course and not most likely but will make a sound

Quote:
2)If us humans defined those vibrations as "sound", than those vibrations are "sound" no mater if humans are there or not. It is just like saying: If there is a carton of milk and there are no people there to call it milk is it milk? Of course it is.


absolutely , correct

Quote:
That is my opinion on the forever popular question.


your reasoning is sound ( sorry about the pun )

why there is a depth of discussion on this thread about this is well puzzling , really
 
Space phil
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 02:00 pm
@north,
north;151608 wrote:

human ego , nothing happens ( in this Universe ) unless we , Humans are involved



Haha, I LOVE that point! I must remember that for future debates. Thanks! Very Happy
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 03:11 pm
@Zacrates,
As was said much earlier within this thread, and I completely agree....it's all just an issue of terms. What do we mean by "sound"? Qualia or air pressure waves?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 03:19 pm
@Space phil,
Space;151592 wrote:
Western philosophy can be a waste of time sometimes. However, since Mr. Purplesawdust is expecting me to share my thoughts on this famous "puzzle," I guess I can waste a few seconds.

Given: A tree falls. No one is around to hear it.
Q: Does it make a sound?

A: Scientifically speaking, yes. No matter what it lands on, no matter which way it falls, it's going to make a sound of some kind. It simply can't literally be proven that it made a sound if nobody was there to witness the event and hear it for themselves. I'd make an analogy to compare the situation but... I can't think of a good one. X) lolz.

Anyway, that's my answer.


Why can't it be proven? Suppose you left a recorder at the site. When you retrieved the recorder, don't you think you would hear a big thud? No one heard the great volcano of Krakatoa in Indonesia blow up. But does anyone seriously maintain there was silence when that happened because there was no one to hear it?
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 04:35 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;151989 wrote:
No one heard the great volcano of Krakatoa in Indonesia blow up.


Purely for informational purposes: Krakatoa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Wed 14 Apr, 2010 08:07 pm
@Zacrates,
So, the issue is not whether there is a sound. Of course there is, and everyone knows there is. The question is rather, what is meant by the proposition, there was a sound (even if no one heard it)?
 
 

 
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