sorry but is this a fare ground ride ? sound is one of the five senses by which animals communicate with their world...why should it suddenly become the reserve of humans..its not a concept its reality..

On a planet far far away the begingings of life are stirring in a primeval swamp no humans to watch this amazing event no one to comment on its arrival...but i can assure you it is and willcontinue to occur without us wonderful egotistical humans present..

Change the thought experiment to "If a tree fell and no living thing was there to hear it, does it make a sound?" By putting animals into the picture it complicates things due to rationality issues.

Sure something is happening, but without a rational observe it cannot be said what is happening.

I dont need to observe it to rationalise it is happening just as i know there is tree at this very moment falling with no human to hear it...Rational is what i am not that the tree is not falling because im not there...A tree has fallen ..we where not there to hear it...i bet you believe it made a noise..

But isn't noise a negative subjective interpretation of sound, which requires a potential hearer to make a judgment on a sound event?

do you want me to give my reasons or are you aware of them ? pathological self centred human condition that we should realise is ok for a parlour game but not for anything constructive...it makes self awarness look like a trip to a desert island...

Well....Yes, thats mainly why i asked for them.

Please show how this "pathology" is so easily refutable, after all, since noone else in history has produced conclusive proof, we are relying on your wisdom

I have stated my position if its not good enough for you then dispute my reasoning but dont ask me to add further to it or i will assume you are being academically amusing.. I have never cared for historic conundrums they dont hold any esteem for me..

What? I am disputing your reasoning. See up there ^ where i called it an appeal to consequences?
Come on, tell us how do you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that the world of your perceptions is real?

The imagery posed by asking if a tree makes a sound if there is no one there to hear it in my opinion is self opinionated tosh by academics who are self obsessed...It is the same reasoning that imagines gods and fairies and the bottom of your garden...tell me do fairies appear when you leave your garden do they paint the petals , drink the dew??

And this ladies and gentlemen is a red herring.

If you cannot justify your assertions at least have the grace to admit it rather then attacking the characters of anyone who IS interested in logically pursuing answers.

persuing answers..so tell me whats your answer to this question? as for attacking i think you initiated the attack...you have pursued me and i have answered but all i have received is an academics superior attitude..i should be respectful..respect does not answer questions it only prolongs them....Iclose my eyes and the world disappears and a goblin in green stands there smiling..now prove im wrong..

Excuse me good sir, but i did not start with an asertion of anything.
YOU were the one who claimed to have all the answers, and you were the one who ducked and dodged the questions with an ad hominem attack against me.

I have no answer, which is why i was so anxious to hear yours, and as to the goblin in green, it could well be true, and i wont call you an "academic who is self obsessed"

If you start a question with sarcasm dont expect me to take prisoners dear sir...I answered the questions.. if it was against your perception then you should have pointed out your disagreement not acted like some primadona...my logic right or wrong tells me trees makes a sound when they fall whether im present or not and no green goblins inhabit my imagination but the relevance does not escape me like it does you..

Once more, can you share this logic? All you said was "I know the answer"

And primadona? Please, quote this to justify your acusations

im not going to be your whipping boy ,if you want to enter into a debate disagree with my statements but dont continue to waffle..if you dont know your attitude is one of self appreciation its too late for me to convince you..

For fate's sake man, a simple 'Ok, i dont have any justification' would serve just as well.

The imagery posed by asking if a tree makes a sound if there is no one there to hear it in my opinion is self opinionated tosh by academics who are self obsessed...It is the same reasoning that imagines gods and fairies and the bottom of your garden...tell me do fairies appear when you leave your garden do they paint the petals , drink the dew??