If A Tree Fell And Nobody Was There To Hear It Does It Make A Sound?

@paulhanke,

paulhanke;33390 wrote:

If a mind materializes and no tree is there for it to perceive, does it make a thought?

Tree or not, I find the evidence points to 'thoughts' as excretia of a 'functioniing' brain; rather like those 'bubbles in the bath', from a functioning digestive system.
A good case can be made...
*__-

@nameless,

The human ego is a wonderful thing to observe...how it ponders on nature and its relationship to it..A tree is a tree is a tree, it neither requires mans presence to grow nor die and fall.If there is no one there to appreciate that golden moment on clear morning with no other noise but the tree making that haunting noise as it falls and then silence again then its the listener that doea not exist not the tree..

@xris,

xris;34034 wrote:

The human ego is a wonderful thing to observe...how it ponders on nature and its relationship to it..A tree is a tree is a tree, it neither requires mans presence to grow nor die and fall.If there is no one there to appreciate that golden moment on clear morning with no other noise but the tree making that haunting noise as it falls and then silence again then its the listener that doea not exist not the tree..

Its not ego, its science.

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

Tree or not, I find the evidence points to 'thoughts' as excretia of a 'functioniing' brain; rather like those 'bubbles in the bath', from a functioning digestive system.
A good case can be made...
*__-

... speaking for myself, the analogy certainly works Wink

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

Its not ego, its science.

Science? how is it science? If a tree falls when no one is there it does not make a sound..thats science?how strange ....

@Holiday20310401,

Holiday20310401 wrote:

I was also being ambiguous in my statements. But it doesn't matter. As long as the tree belongs to a system, whatever phenomenon it undergoes will affect the whole system, even if in the slightest manner.

:detective:I allways like this question.

"If a tree falls and there is nobody to hear it does it make a sound?"

Even if the answer is yes or no, it can not be proven that a falling tree even make's a sound within that system, nor could it be proven that it dosnt, due to the fact that "Nobody" is around to prove it did or did not make a sound as it fell.

Therefore logicaly, the answer to this question is "Unknown" Due to it can not be proven that it dose, or dose not , since nobody is there to hear it, and therefore prove it.
(+When I say "Nobody" I also mean no sound recorder's, bodies, ect+)
(+Basicaly you cant prove it unless somthing is there to prove it then prove it to you+)

Here's another one, yet it's a great learning tool.
______________________
Rule1. You are the only human on earth.
Rule2. There has never been another human but you on earth.
Rule3. No recorder's/devices
(*Note, these are not trick rules)

Q1. When you go to sleep, dose everything els still exist?
Q2. How would you prove everthing still dose, or dose not?

_=-+(:flowers:Oooo And I'am back from vacation!!)+-=_

@xris,

xris wrote:

Science? how is it science? If a tree falls when no one is there it does not make a sound..thats science?how strange ....

Science is knowlage, and it take's knowlage to know if it dose make a sound or dose not make a sound, when no one is around.

And Science dictate's logicaly that it can not be proven it dose or dose not when no one is around and there is no devices, recorders, ect around as well, and therefore the rule's of this existence could have a claus saying that it dosnt need to make a sound and therefore dosnt make a sound , and there would be no way to prove that the tree did or did not.

@No0ne,

Sorry but if you cant believe a tree makes a SOUND as we know SOUND when it falls then mankind would still be pondering on if and when the sun is going to rise tomorrow...Thinker sitting on his bog has more important things to wonder about...i should hope...

@xris,

... sounds like we're getting dangerously close to positivism here ... the assertion that science is the only valid form of knowledge was discredited over 100 years ago, and given up as untenable by the middle of the last century ... for example, isn't history knowledge?

@paulhanke,

pondering on the lack of sound when no one is listening in my mind gives philosophy a bad name...this business of nothing exists except in the observers mind and the whole universe ceases to exist when the last human dies is Ok for parlour games but not logical thinkers..When i die... yes the world does cease to be for me but i certainly hope you all have something to walk on when i leave..

@Zacrates,

Since sound is a human concept to explain a natural phenomenon, if there is no one there to hear it then technically the tree does not make a sound. If there is no observer to declare that the natural phenomenon sufficiently fulfilled the qualities of the concept "sound," then all that happened was an interaction of matter.

@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus wrote:

Since sound is a human concept to explain a natural phenomenon, if there is no one there to hear it then technically the tree does not make a sound. If there is no observer to declare that the natural phenomenon sufficiently fulfilled the qualities of the concept "sound," then all that happened was an interaction of matter.

Human concept SOUND..wot..so how do animals hear..this self indulgence by humanity is a bit too much at times...so the sound waves that echoed through the forest that stirred the leaves that scared the birds that woke the mouse that had ripple effect for mile after mile that could have caused an avalanche ,stampeded cattle ...did not happen because there was no human to hear it...

@xris,

xris wrote:

Human concept SOUND..wot..so how do animals hear..this self indulgence by humanity is a bit too much at times...so the sound waves that echoed through the forest that stirred the leaves that scared the birds that woke the mouse that had ripple effect for mile after mile that could have caused an avalanche ,stampeded cattle ...did not happen because there was no human to hear it...

I was only making the point that fact that we know "sound" as a concept is a human definition and a rational distinction. Many things make sounds that humans cannot hear, thus they do not define these things as making sound. Sure animals hear, but do they hear "sound." Maybe they call it something else.

@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus wrote:

I was only making the point that fact that we know "sound" as a concept is a human definition and a rational distinction. Many things make sounds that humans cannot hear, thus they do not define these things as making sound. Sure animals hear, but do they hear "sound." Maybe they call it something else.

so if i called it brufff then bears would hear it but not if i called it sound??you got me there...

@Zacrates,

It all depends on how you look at the problem. Is it an epistemological issue or an issue involving natural phenomena?

@Theaetetus,

Quote:

pondering on the lack of sound when no one is listening in my mind gives philosophy a bad name...this business of nothing exists except in the observers mind and the whole universe ceases to exist when the last human dies is Ok for parlour games but not logical thinkers..When i die... yes the world does cease to be for me but i certainly hope you all have something to walk on when i leave..

Appeal to consequences. Can you please inform us of the results of your "parlour games" which logically disprove the notion of solipsism?

*waits with baited breath*

@Solipsistic Cat,

Solipsistic_Cat wrote:

Appeal to consequences. Can you please inform us of the results of your "parlour games" which logically disprove the notion of solipsism?

*waits with baited breath*

do you want me to give my reasons or are you aware of them ? pathological self centred human condition that we should realise is ok for a parlour game but not for anything constructive...it makes self awarness look like a trip to a desert island...

@xris,

xris wrote:

Human concept SOUND..wot..so how do animals hear..this self indulgence by humanity is a bit too much at times...so the sound waves that echoed through the forest that stirred the leaves that scared the birds that woke the mouse that had ripple effect for mile after mile that could have caused an avalanche ,stampeded cattle ...did not happen because there was no human to hear it...

But aren't these so-called sound waves that you speak of a concept of human beings? Sure, a natural phenomenon happened in which matter is disturbed in a certain way, but if nothing actually interprets the change in the environment as a sound, was there a sound?

@Theaetetus,

Theaetetus wrote:

But aren't these so-called sound waves that you speak of a concept of human beings? Sure, a natural phenomenon happened in which matter is disturbed in a certain way, but if nothing actually interprets the change in the environment as a sound, was there a sound?

sorry but is this a fare ground ride ? sound is one of the five senses by which animals communicate with their world...why should it suddenly become the reserve of humans..its not a concept its reality..

@xris,

On a planet far far away the begingings of life are stirring in a primeval swamp no humans to watch this amazing event no one to comment on its arrival...but i can assure you it is and willcontinue to occur without us wonderful egotistical humans present..

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