If A Tree Fell And Nobody Was There To Hear It Does It Make A Sound?

@Kolbe,

Kolbe;43377 wrote:

Erm...no they aren't. A Christian isn't god, a Muslim isn't Allah, I am not the future etc.

If you say so...
I'm willimg to accept your comment as an honest statement of youPerspective, at the moment.
I was comming from an 'enlightened scientific' Perspective.
There are many Perspectives.

@xris,

xris;43380 wrote:

So for anything to exist in the scientific world someone has to observe it. It cant be conceived like a black hole, white hole or dark matter.This is quit something, are you planning to write a thesis.

Don't need to.
It's 'old' stuff.
Yes, it's quite amazing!
Learn some science and see for yourself!

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

Don't need to.
It's 'old' stuff.
Yes, it's quite amazing!
Learn some science and see for yourself!

What type of answer is that ? Tell me what science is there in telling me a tree does not make a noise when it falls ? IDE BE EVER SO GRATEFUL.

@xris,

When a chain saw fires up in a wood, surely all of the trees must tremble. I wood!

=
MJA

@xris,

xris;43585 wrote:

What type of answer is that ? Tell me what science is there in telling me a tree does not make a noise when it falls ? IDE BE EVER SO GRATEFUL.

I already did; standing pressure (shock) waves (silent in and of themselves), eardrums, brains.. I already explained it. If you wish to know more, look it up. What I offered IS science, the science of physics. Perhaps you missed that post. Perhaps you missed that 'class' in school.
Either way, it has been posted, reread the posts...
Your 'tone' suggests 'other than' an honest inquiry and attempt to understand..
What I offered is not my opinion, I offered sufficient science to illustrate my point. I'm done. The topic, to me, is old and worn (and boring) and wouldn't be quite so if people had any kind of decent high-school education, or 'self' initiated inquiry. I can't put it any simpler than that. If you want more, and are 'sincere' in your inquiry, it's all over the net. It ain't mysticism. Look it up.
Happy learning.

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

I already did; standing pressure (shock) waves (silent in and of themselves), eardrums, brains.. I already explained it. If you wish to know more, look it up. What I offered IS science, the science of physics. Perhaps you missed that post. Perhaps you missed that 'class' in school.
Either way, it has been posted, reread the posts...
Your 'tone' suggests 'other than' an honest inquiry and attempt to understand..
What I offered is not my opinion, I offered sufficient science to illustrate my point. I'm done. The topic, to me, is old and worn (and boring) and wouldn't be quite so if people had any kind of decent high-school education, or 'self' initiated inquiry. I can't put it any simpler than that. If you want more, and are 'sincere' in your inquiry, it's all over the net. It ain't mysticism. Look it up.
Happy learning.

If you require a scientific reason not to believe in sound , i think its you that needs education .Im not surprised you have had enough if sound is a troubling subject for you.Shock waves as you call them , is that new hair product ? Sound waves are in the audible range for most animals ability to hear when a tree falls, making that lovely cracking sound then a sort of umph as it hits the ground..

@Zacrates,

Only if a consciousness had interpreted.

@Zacrates,

Everything i learn has a start at the begining. I learned that things that fall down (mostly) do make sounds, when the first thing around me fell down. So i don't have to see it to believe in it, just like believeing in god or in jesus that i never saw before.
For example, this placebo affect, you get a vitamin and believe that it is an aspirin, it works like an aspirin instead of working like a vitamin. So what you believe in is 'there' for you, somehow. For someone who never saw something falling and making a sound, there would not be a sound made by the tree.

@grasshopper,

grasshopper wrote:

Everything i learn has a start at the begining. I learned that things that fall down (mostly) do make sounds, when the first thing around me fell down. So i don't have to see it to believe in it, just like believeing in god or in jesus that i never saw before.
For example, this placebo affect, you get a vitamin and believe that it is an aspirin, it works like an aspirin instead of working like a vitamin. So what you believe in is 'there' for you, somehow. For someone who never saw something falling and making a sound, there would not be a sound made by the tree.

So everything has a meaning to start at the beginning otherwise it would be meaningless thus merely non-existent. The idea of a tree falling down is important not whether a consciousness had experienced it or not, however if a consciousness had never experienced it, than it would be non-existent, however physical objects cannot possibly just exist without a consciousness thus it begs the question that there was always a consciousness whom already interpreted and the tree and the sound does exist.

@Vegeance,

Vegeance wrote:

So everything has a meaning to start at the beginning otherwise it would be meaningless thus merely non-existent. The idea of a tree falling down is important not whether a consciousness had experienced it or not, however if a consciousness had never experienced it, than it would be non-existent, however physical objects cannot possibly just exist without a consciousness thus it begs the question that there was always a consciousness whom already interpreted and the tree and the sound does exist.

' the idea of a tree falling down is important not whether a consciousness had experienced it or not' (as u say) and than u add 'however if a consciousness had never experienced it, than it would be non-existent'. isn't it the most important thing existing, or however you say. so what's the point about talking about something that doesn't exist for someone (for example, for someone who never heard something falling down and making a sound)

@Zacrates,

Look, sound does not really exist UNLESS THERE IS SOMETHING TO INTERPRET THE SOUNDWAVES. Currently taking an advanced physics course in my freshman year of high school (YAY!), I have a grip on this sort of stuff. If there is no one around to hear a tree fall, technically no sound exists. As the tree falls, IF AND ONLY IF there is something to interpret the compressed air waves and recognize it as sound, it is sound. As the waves reach an eardrum, say, the eardrum will vibrate at the same frequency as the tree's falling, then transports the vibrations through the cochlear canal and all that good stuff, then finally on to the brain, where it is registered as sound. Think about a vacuum tube, where there is no air to transmit soundwaves, even if you were to put an air raid siren in one, you would hear nothing.

-Skullz

@Zacrates,

Of course the answer to this question is dependent on what the definition of "Sound" is. However let us take another usage of sound in the adjectival sense e.g. a certain thought is sound etc. - Will an argument ensue as to whether said thought is indeed sound depending on its definition? Does it need to necessarily resonate in the figurative sense in order for the thought to actually be sound? If we take the definition from the above post in which sound must have an ear to vibrate at the same frequency, then does a thought necessarily become sound even if nobody is around to hear it?

Furthermore, what about a thought that was conceived, but in this case was not expressed to the Other; in this case is the thought itself sound even though it has not figuratively resonated in the 'ears' of the person? The origin of this sound is not necessarily inherently sound in itself; sound requires an Other and until this actually occurs it is merely something which may be channeled across a substrate and does not form an interaction until one actually exists; e.g. until there is a party with whom one may interact.

However it may be questioned at this point the notion of the actual interaction when the message being conveyed is seemingly inert and familiar; as the message being received may be familiar and self evident, then that which was received or that which was reacted to is not the sound itself e.g. it is not the actual message and the actual 'package' which was before never existing and now is something entirely new, but rather what has been revealed is simply a prompt to that which was familiar; thereby it not making a sound at all, or in the sense of thought, the thought not being sound; e.g. it is not that thought which was just conveyed that was sound, but rather the soundness thereof which was spurred in a re-emerging fashion and thusly remansifested in that which was familiar.

In the case of the physical sound, in which sound is sound qua process and interaction, it must be concluded that nothing ever purely makes a sound unless that sound is not immediately being made but rather being sensed in which that sound is actually becomes sound and not a mere vibration.

@Zacrates,

So a tree falling in the woods can emit sound waves, but if there is no one around to interpret those sound waves then there isn't any sound?

It seems to me that if the tree fell in the woods, molecules in the air would still vibrate as they are acted upon by the sound wave, thus creating sound.

Why does the production of sound depend on the interpretation of it?

@Aphoric,

Well, I apologize for my wording. I meant actually that sound is really only perceived when acknowledged by the brain as vibration at a frequency, pitch, note, and so on with the minutiae.

-Skullz

@Aphoric,

Aphoric;61678 wrote:

So a tree falling in the woods can emit sound waves, but if there is no one around to interpret those sound waves then there isn't any sound?

It seems to me that if the tree fell in the woods, molecules in the air would still vibrate as they are acted upon by the sound wave, thus creating sound.

Why does the production of sound depend on the interpretation of it?

The falling tree makes standing pressure waves, 'shock-waves'. These waves are absolutely silent. When they rattle your eardrum, and the nerves send appropriate chemicals and electrical impulses to your brain, this 'coded data' manifests on the display monitor of your mind as a percept/concept. 'Sound' is only heard, only manifests, only exists as 'sound' within our brains.
Some like to define 'sound' as standing pressure waves, but contrary to common usage and understanding of the word 'sound', i find this a 'partial definition', perhaps. Trace the silence to your head and then, perhaps a better definition. Silence is no sound. Outside your mind, is absolutely silent. Absolutely dark! And the same for all the other senses.
Reality is truly "stranger than fiction"!

@nameless,

Is anything only ever conceived when it is related to humanity.Does nothing happen when we turn our back.With the same reasoning black holes don't drag matter into its belly, stars don't shine, galaxies are invisible.

@xris,

xris;61705 wrote:

Is anything only ever conceived when it is related to humanity.Does nothing happen when we turn our back.With the same reasoning black holes don't drag matter into its belly, stars don't shine, galaxies are invisible.

Existence is perception/Perspective dependentn to the extent that perceiver and perceived are one.
Neither can be eliminated from the equation without eliminating the 'other'.
I cannot speak to whether 'perception' is limited to humanity (individual and unique Perspectives all) or includes (as I suspect) every non-human Perspective, whether dog or tree or galaxy...

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

Existence is perception/Perspective dependentn to the extent that perceiver and perceived are one.
Neither can be eliminated from the equation without eliminating the 'other'.
I cannot speak to whether 'perception' is limited to humanity (individual and unique Perspectives all) or includes (as I suspect) every non-human Perspective, whether dog or tree or galaxy...

Then we must assume the tree has inhabitants who felt its death and heard its final fall.

@xris,

xris;62013 wrote:

Then we must assume the tree has inhabitants who felt its death and heard its final fall.

It's quite a leap between me saying that I cannot speak to something of which I am ignorant and stating what you have stated. We 'must assume' no such thing. It is a possibility, though. Many Perspectives comprise existence. Of the vast majority of which, we remain clueless.
Perhaps the tree perceived itself, heard it's own crash? That would be sufficient to give it existence.

@nameless,

nameless wrote:

It's quite a leap between me saying that I cannot speak to something of which I am ignorant and stating what you have stated. We 'must assume' no such thing. It is a possibility, though. Many Perspectives comprise existence. Of the vast majority of which, we remain clueless.

You dont exist,your figment of my imagination so your opinion is not valid,sorry.

Philosophy Forum

If A Tree Fell And Nobody Was There To Hear It Does It Make A Sound?

Quick Links

My Account

able2know