Is Truth Invented or Discovered?

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;126385 wrote:

I didn't claim to know what the truth value is. I just pointed out that either it is true or not true that there is intelligent life on other planets, but that neither is certain. Therefore truth does not imply certainty. What I think you may have in mind is not that truth implies certainty, but that when a person claims that something is true, that person usually (unless he is being insincere) feels certain about his claim. But, of course, that is something very different from saying that truth implies certainty. If is that claiming truth often suggests the person who is claiming it, feels sure it is true. There is an important different bewteen claiming that p is true, and p being true. Don't confuse the claim with what is being claimed.

---------- Post added 02-09-2010 at 07:53 AM ----------

I thought you helped to make a building, not truth. Am I mistaken?

If it is real, and buildings are real, n'es pas, then are they not truth...When did the truth become unreal???

@amist,

amist;126414 wrote:

I'm going to respond to this thread one more time.

I am going to say this one last time. If it is uncertain, I don't think you should be claiming it is the truth. Contingent truths are often highly dubitable, such as historical 'facts', which get overturned all of the time for instance. It's not knowledge, it's just information.

Perhaps if I think it is uncertain, then it would be misleading to claim it is the truth. But why does that mean that if I think it is uncertain, that it is not true? Obviously it does not. Claiming is one thing. What is being claimed is a different thing. You are confusing them (again).

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;126421 wrote:

Perhaps if I think it is uncertain, then it would be misleading to claim it is the truth.

But all contingent truths are uncertain. Shouldn't you therefore qualify any claim of a contingent truth?

kennethamy;126421 wrote:

But why does that mean that if I think it is uncertain, that it is not true? Obviously it does not.

I agree with that.

@ACB,

ACB;126423 wrote:

But all contingent truths are uncertain. Shouldn't you therefore qualify any claim of a contingent truth?

I agree with that.

Qualify how? It was, at one time, the fashion to add, "Deus Volenti" to any prediction. But that was dropped, since it was taken for granted, and to say it became tedious.

@Reconstructo,

Truth is both made and found. For any large institution/regime such as politics, religion, sports ..etc, you can easily manipulate the naive.

"Philosophers/scientist inventors of tools or lifters of curtains?" ..both also? Not more than lawyers, journalists, students ..etc.

@Deckard,

Deckard;126350 wrote:

Curtain lifters can only be scolded and scared away. Inventors can be judged. And those who judge will say: "How dare you further complicate this labyrinth!"

I see what you mean, but what about the inventor of the screwdriver? My favorite inventors improve life. A novelist is an inventor.

I can't help but think that most writers especially (over?-)identify with their creations. You and I have talked about the anxiety of influence, so that is a sort of balancing factor. Do we write books, for instance, for money (some), ego/pseudo-children(most?), or from pure benevolence(maybe a few)? Perhaps a mix of the three.

Did Kant invent what was him a personal solution of the tension between his love for science and faith? Did Schopenhauer and Nietzsche do the same? Perhaps when they invent their (temporary?) cure for cognitive dissonance, they want to share this happiness. Or perhaps another motive steps up to the plate.

---------- Post added 02-11-2010 at 01:02 AM ----------

Fido;126419 wrote:

..When did the truth become unreal???

Right about the time that philosophy was born.:sarcastic:

---------- Post added 02-11-2010 at 01:04 AM ----------

amist;126351 wrote:

The truth is found, information is created.

Respectfully, where did you find the above truth? Or is it just information?

@Reconstructo,

I am struck by how universal the metaphysical concept of "truth" is.
I am also struck by how universal the notion that possession of truth is a good.
The truth is the truth even if only one man holds it or even if no man holds it.
The truth is eternal and changeless all Platonic idealism.
I would say that truth is discovered not invented.

Many things that we humans call "truth" however are invented but they are not the "Truth".

@prothero,

prothero;127033 wrote:

Many things that we humans call "truth" however are invented but they are not the "Truth".

Or even true. To say that a truth was invented is to imply that it is not a truth, and that it is a lie. Goebbels invented the truth that the Nazi's are the master race implies that the Nazi's are the master race is a lie, and not the truth.

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;126346 wrote:

Is truth made or found? Are philosophers/scientist inventors of tools or lifters of curtains?

Hello Recon. Truth just is. It's an ongoing journey that insures tomorrow is better than today. Discovery out of desperation creates tools that are not needed to solve problems that shouldn't exist. Serendipity is not an accident. That is finding what we are meant to find when we are meant to find it. Not before or after. Truth has no argument only a collective working together for the common good for all. Truth is trust and we aren't that civilized yet. Hopefully........................one day..............

Wlliam

@William,

William;127040 wrote:

Hello Recon. Truth just is. It's an ongoing journey that insures tomorrow is better than today. Discovery out of desperation creates tools that are not needed to solve problems that shouldn't exist. Serendipity is not an accident. That is finding what we are meant to find when we are meant to find it. Not before or after. Truth has no argument only a collective working together for the common good for all. Truth is trust and we aren't that civilized yet. Hopefully........................one day..............

Wlliam

It is true that Quito is the capital of Ecuador. How is that trust?

@William,

William;127040 wrote:

Hello Recon. Truth just is. It's an ongoing journey that insures tomorrow is better than today. Discovery out of desperation creates tools that are not needed to solve problems that shouldn't exist. Serendipity is not an accident. That is finding what we are meant to find when we are meant to find it. Not before or after. Truth has no argument only a collective working together for the common good for all. Truth is trust and we aren't that civilized yet. Hopefully........................one day..............

Wlliam

It is a job making sure tomorrow follows today

@prothero,

prothero;127033 wrote:

Many things that we humans call "truth" however are invented but they are not the "Truth".

I view "truth" as a word with more than one role. Christ famously described himself as the Truth. But "true" is often just an adjective. Another question might be this. Is your statement quoted above true? If so, would you call it a discovery?

I find that the word "certainty" tends to describe an emotion. Isn't certainty a synonym of faith?

@Reconstructo,

kennethamy;126363 wrote:

Truth never "achieves" certainty, since it really makes no sense to say of truth that it is certain. Although, of course, it makes sense to say that people are certain (or uncertain) of truths. I doubt that the Nile river became the longest river in Africa only when it was finally measured. What was it before it was measured?

If information is not true, it is hardly information. There is no information that the Nile is the shortest river in Africa.

Truth doesn't achieve certainty but can I say that truth is realized?

Also when I think of information, I think of information theory, I think of any statement (and more generally any signal) that can be transmitted regardless of whether it is true or not. In this context a statement like "The Wisconsin River is the longest river in Africa" is still information.

Maybe this is a specialist use of the word 'information'. However, I have heard it used this way in common parlance. For example someone might say something like "There is an incredible amount of information on the internet but not all of it is true." and people most people would understand what that statement means.

@Deckard,

Deckard;127240 wrote:

Truth doesn't achieve certainty but can I say that truth realized?

.

I don't understand what that would mean. What is "truth realized"? I can believe that Quito is the capital of Ecuador, and that is true. But believing it isn't being certain of it.

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;127262 wrote:

I don't understand what that would mean. What is "truth realized"?

I accidentally missed an "is".
"Truth doesn't achieve certainty but can I say that truth is realized?"
By this I mean realized by someone.

@Deckard,

Deckard;127263 wrote:

I accidentally missed an "is".
"Truth doesn't achieve certainty but can I say that truth is realized?"
By this I mean realized by someone.

But, what does that mean? That you realize that something is true? Can you give an example of "truth realized by someone"?

@Reconstructo,

Deliver us, Lord, from Quito.

@Reconstructo,

Reconstructo;127275 wrote:

Deliver us, Lord, from Quito.

Yes, I know that you would rather we talk in philosophese. It sounds so much more profound, and it has the immense advantage of being too vague to refute.

@kennethamy,

For those who actually believe in free will, and that the Universe is an open system, I would say, probably invented...I think obviously, the opposite...

@kennethamy,

kennethamy;127277 wrote:

Yes, I know that you would rather we talk in philosophese. It sounds so much more profound, and it has the immense advantage of being too vague to refute.

To me, that's a narrow and shallow view of philosophy. Propositions and refutations. Poor Socrates. He's been shrunk. He's been mistaken for a paperweight.

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