On The Contrast Between Appearance And Reality

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Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 12:46 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Imagine Nietzche Heggel and kant together...ironic !
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 12:47 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;135236 wrote:


how so? could you explain?
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 12:49 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;135240 wrote:
how so? could you explain?


Man as progressive man, Super-man... towards Noumena through Dialectics...
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 12:50 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;135239 wrote:
Imagine Nietzche Heggel and kant together...ironic !


Kant = static structure = eternity
Nietzsche = metaphor as truth = time
Hegel = static structure achieved thru a passage thru time/nietzsche = time+eternity

number = eternity/number/identity
metaphor = time/half-continuous/analogy

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 01:51 AM ----------

Fil. Albuquerque;135242 wrote:
Man as progressive man, Super-man... towards Noumena through Dialectics...


by noumena do you mean the transcendental philosophy? Or do you mean the numen, an object of spiritual desire? Or are they the same? (For me they are the same, since i'm a foolosopher, but the transcendental philosophy must include logos or time(metaphor that is purified into number), or it is not complete.....)
 
prothero
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 12:53 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;135234 wrote:
So does process philosophy address the inherently digital/discete nature of thought?
Process philosphy addresses the primordial (eternal, changeless, static) realm of the possible or ideal and the consequent(flux,change,process)the realm of the actual.
So the process view of nature is dipolar.
The process theology view of god is also dipolar.

I think this would correspond to your current fascination with the digital or discrete versus the continuous, although not perfectly.

If you are not familiar it would be worth your time to cover the basics.
A.N. Whitehead is tough reading, a whole new terminology, mostly to try to avoid confusion with meanings attached to old terms.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 12:55 am
@prothero,
prothero;135245 wrote:
Process philosphy addresses the primordial (eternal, changeless, static) realm of the possible or ideal and the consequent(flux,change,process)the realm of the actual.
So the process view of nature is dipolar.
The process theology view of god is also dipolar.

I think this would correspond to your current fascination with the digital or discrete versus the continuous, although not perfectly.

If you are not familiar it would be worth your time to cover the basics.
A.N. Whitehead is tough reading, a whole new terminology, mostly to try to avoid confusion with meanings attached to old terms.


I've heard of it, and of course there's Nietzsche who switches being for becoming as truth....I will check it out. But one thing is especially important to me. Does he examine what for me is a fact? That our thinking (not feeling or sensation) is 100% discrete at all times and places?
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 12:58 am
@prothero,
...I was referring to process Philosophy...

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 02:02 AM ----------

SUPER-MAN is not Homo Sapiens 2 of course...is Biology Process...once more Dialectics...

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 02:06 AM ----------

"MAN" and Nature fuse into ONE here...he still is SUPER-MAN...CAUSED and CAUSAL in the CAUSE...remenber Meta-Dialectics...everyone goes super ! Very Happy
 
prothero
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:10 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;135246 wrote:
I've heard of it, and of course there's Nietzsche who switches being for becoming as truth....I will check it out. But one thing is especially important to me. Does he examine what for me is a fact? That our thinking (not feeling or sensation) is 100% discrete at all times and places?
Well you know, process philosophy is a theory of reality, not a independent theory of mind.

Most process philosophers are panpsychsts (mind or properties of mind are a fundamental feature of reality) all the way down to the core of nature.

They are also neutral monists (mind-matter are the two inseparable poles of reality, all events have both a material and a mental aspect).

Process reality is composed of moments or droplets of experience (events)and so mind would be discrete as well as pervausive. Our minds anyway. The mind of god in the process theology version is a different matter.
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:16 am
@prothero,
prothero;135259 wrote:
Well you know, process philosophy is a theory of reality, not a independent theory of mind.

Most process philosophers are panpsychsts (mind or properties of mind are a fundamental feature of reality) all the way down to the core of nature.

They are also neutral monists (mind-matter are the two inseparable poles of reality, all events have both a material and a mental aspect).

Process reality is composed of moments or droplets of experience (events)and so mind would be discrete as well as pervausive. Our minds anyway. The mind of god in the process theology version is a different matter.


---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 02:18 AM ----------

Why do you have to make it so tangible ?

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 02:26 AM ----------

Man is the way, not the End or the Beginning...Mind in man or Biology, is the process, the Devir, the Holy Ghost, but not NOUMENA...its emergent.

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 02:29 AM ----------

 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:35 am
@Pythagorean,
Well, human experience is tangible. So you either have to negate tangible human experience or assimilate it. What say you, brother philosopher?
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:38 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;135271 wrote:
Well, human experience is tangible. So you either have to negate tangible human experience or assimilate it. What say you, brother philosopher?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:41 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;135275 wrote:



So man will technologically achieve this?
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:41 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
...Carbon is outdated...Silicone is more like it...a prime materials revolution...Son of man A.I.

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 02:44 AM ----------

...yet another step in the ladder !
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:44 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;135278 wrote:
...Carbon is outdated...Silicone is more like it...a prime materials revolution...Son of man A.I.



Ok, i see that it's a real world plan then. I was at first thinking it was a concept system only.
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 01:56 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;135280 wrote:
Ok, i see that it's a real world plan then. I was at first thinking it was a concept system only.


Phenomena as to match Noumena through Time and History...but what do you mean with concept...things are representations of representations in Dialectics, the Meta-Object...so there you have it...in and out of mind...

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 02:57 AM ----------

...Nature itself uses one object in several different ways with several different purposes...functions ! Idealizations are themselves in nature through form and context, momentum...

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 02:58 AM ----------

My daunting task is to surpass all dichotomies...:brickwall:

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 03:01 AM ----------



---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 03:14 AM ----------

...The question would be WHAT UNIFIES Qualia, Mind or Order ?
...Mind is a mean and not an end...but you know Hardware (Nature) and Software (Mind\Thoughts) often do the same...in another level all goes down to LAW.

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 03:19 AM ----------

My feeling is that Realism and Idealism have to truly meat somewhere in the middle...find common ground...
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 09:21 am
@Pythagorean,
Pythagorean;135118 wrote:
It was the first time in my life I was ever attacked for the use of reason. ..and on a philosophy forum!!


Someone could explain to you how humans evolved to have minds, but that wouldn't suffice for you. The distinction is between cause and reason. You are looking for a 'higher' reason for why things are the way they are, and no explanation of the cause will satisfy you. Do you understand? This could lead to infinite regression rather quickly.

You seem very disgruntled, by the way. :thats-enough:

Fil. Albuquerque wrote:


It is a common misconception that evolution seeks to explain the first cause. It does not. And it does not seek to explain why humans exist in this world, but only how they came to exist in this world. In other words, you can accept evolution, still believe in whatever superstitious/mystical reason you want for why we exist, and not contradict yourself.

---------- Post added 03-03-2010 at 10:51 AM ----------

kennethamy wrote:

Yes, because God is a person, and has reasons. But Aristotle had a teleological conception of the world, in terms of which he tried to explain all events. It was Galileo who finally put paid to this conception. And then, science took off. You can find the story in Randall's, The Making of the Modern Mind. Now, we are being confronted with a regression.


That sounds scary. What do you mean?
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 10:16 am
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;135356 wrote:
It is a common misconception that evolution seeks to explain the first cause. It does not. And it does not seek to explain why humans exist in this world, but only how they came to exist in this world. In other words, you can accept evolution, still believe in whatever superstitious/mystical reason you want for why we exist, and not contradict yourself.
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 10:23 am
@Pythagorean,
Fil. Albuquerque wrote:

Well I find it fantastic that you and some guys get to say what Evolution is all about...its a laugh !Laughing


I know, it's hilarious. Believing something is what it is, that's insane. We should always consider that something is more than it is, you're right. Let us twist definitions to suit our liking, and then everything will mean as we wish! No one could ever tell us we're wrong either, because we can just say, "Why can't X word mean more than it's conventional usage?!".

Brilliant stuff here.
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 10:27 am
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;135369 wrote:
I know, it's hilarious. Believing something is what it is, that's insane. We should always consider that something is more than it is, you're right. Let us twist definitions to suit our liking, and then everything will mean as we wish! No one could ever tell us we're wrong either, because we can just say, "Why can't X word mean more than it's conventional usage?!".

Brilliant stuff here.


...One thing is the meaning of Evolution another is to recognize a roll in that, or do you defend that there are functions with no purpose ? Not so brilliant if you are naive enough to think so...:whistling:
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Wed 3 Mar, 2010 10:30 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil. Albuquerque;135370 wrote:
...One thing is the meaning of Evolution another is to recognize a roll in that, or do you defend that there are functions with no purpose ? Not so brilliant if you are naive enough to think so...:whistling:


What does "recognize a roll in that" mean? Like, a sushi roll?
 
 

 
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