TT: If the Idealist studies the mind for some time, then comes to the conclusion that they are not the mind, and that the mind is, in fact, all smoke and mirrors, what is it that they thought they were using to study the mind with in the first place?
S9: The mind is a very capable instrument. When it studies itself, and gets the lay of the land, and it can actually come to realize that it is just a tool. (Not in the drivers seat) This is because of its capacity for self-reflection. Mind can “NOT’ itself.
The mind is made up of a bundle of thoughts, which come and go constantly. If you watch these thoughts come out of nothing and fade back into nothing, (people usually see this during meditation), than you start to wonder what supports this display, or dream. This next step calls for some subtle investigation. This ability grows with practice, like any skill.
TT: Further, it would seem to me that if the Empiricist and/or the Idealist are to accept their own interpretation of whatever it is they think they are viewing, they would have to deny the possibility that their senses are not always reliable.
S9: Oh no, I didn’t say that your senses weren’t reliable. They too are excellent instruments. But your senses, much like your thoughts, come and go constantly, also proving themselves to be temporary or impermanent.
TT: If they do not deny the possibility that their senses are not reliable witnesses, then it seems to me they must by default agree that there is a likelihood that they are entirely mistaken in their beliefs and have, in effect, made up their minds to accept something for which there is no evidence beyond faith or the desire that it be true.
S9: This would be a mistaken notion, which could only come out of your lack of persistence, when studying these servants of the mind in some real depth.
TT: When you say, "step outside of the mind", is this the same thing as saying that the advanced mystic is out of his mind?
S9: Perhaps not really ‘out of his mind’, so much as no longer identifying his self as being the mind.
Mind is on automatic pilot, just like your nightly dreams. When you wake up, the dream no longer uses you like a hand puppet.
I know this is difficult to adjust to, esp. at first. Mind is almost in a state of hypnosis, or is under the suggestion that we are the mind. Mind sees your lack of identity with it as a kind of death.
---------- Post added 10-19-2009 at 08:47 PM ----------
M: I couldn't in good conscious let these demons go, they would only move onto another person, and this is just unacceptable.
S9: Where did you ever get such an idea? You are not speaking of demons as metaphor are you?
M: Let me tell you why, it’s not because I feel bad for the person they will eventually attach themselves to, it’s a far more selfish reason, I would have to answer for intentionally allowing my problems to be solved through a means of "catch and release” so to speak. This will never happen while I'm still alive.
S9: Are you into Satanism?
M: I believe you underestimate my resolve S9.
S9: No, I think you got a real trip going here. Perhaps it gives your life meaning.
M: I never said I was unhappy and I’m far from special, but your comment about "just because I cant, doesn’t mean someone else hasn't"...well that's abet mosaic, no?
S9: No, I think you base what can and can’t be done on your own abilities.
M: Do you honestly believe anyone that has, is or will walk the face of this earth have anymore insight into what's truly important about life than what common sense or instincts have already provided?
S9: Yes, I Do. Instincts are a development that aids survival only. I believe that we are capable of far more than this. Just the fact that someone can write a novel proves this.
M: Your wrong about the equality of an individual's problem, because once you remove all the trivial B.S floating around inside the minds of you, me and all (X) billion people, we are left with only one decision, yes or no.
S9: I think that is only true, if you were merely a physical being. You would look around and wonder if it was worth all of the trouble.
M: The question is irrelevant S9.
S9: Which question, suicide? If it is the only question, how could it also be irrelevant?
Actually, I am a hard determinist, and believe that unless it is fated, suicide isn’t possible.