Fricking Earth Day Again!

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Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 02:28 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
Because cynicism is an intellectual sickness. Skepticism, on the other hand, is healthy. Be skeptical, don't be cynical. Not everyone is a selfish imp.
 
Elmud
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 03:58 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
The lack of respect for authority seems to be a big problem too these days.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 04:11 pm
@Elmud,
LOL Elmud I just flashed on you as an old guy in a robe standing on your porch yelling "GET OFF MAH LAWN!"
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 04:13 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud;60757 wrote:
The lack of respect for authority seems to be a big problem too these days.


What do you mean? Respect for authority. Like not questioning appeals to authority.
 
Elmud
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 04:40 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
What do you mean? Respect for authority. Like not questioning appeals to authority.
Aw. You know. Respect for the one who signs the paycheck. Respect for those who who have more knowledge in certain subjects. Sometimes, we have to appeal to authority, because we simply do not know as much as we think. Relative to the environment, I personally do not question those who are spending the time and energy to address the problem , which is real. I know it is real because I have witnessed this deterioration of our ecosystem in the last fifty years. I am appealing to those who have the knowledge and the foresight to solve the problem. I reject the conservative notion that this is not as bad a problem as others suggest. I reject it because they are wrong. Simple as that. Why do I say they are wrong? Because I have and am witnessing humanity poison the planet.

---------- Post added at 05:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:40 PM ----------

GoshisDead wrote:
LOL Elmud I just flashed on you as an old guy in a robe standing on your porch yelling "GET OFF MAH LAWN!"

You know Gosh, even though I am a little above middle age and am starting to feel a little decrepit, I am still kewl. I would never wear a bathrobe.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 04:54 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud;60765 wrote:
Aw. You know. Respect for the one who signs the paycheck. Respect for those who who have more knowledge in certain subjects. Sometimes, we have to appeal to authority, because we simply do not know as much as we think. Relative to the environment, I personally do not question those who are spending the time and energy to address the problem , which is real. I know it is real because I have witnessed this deterioration of our ecosystem in the last fifty years. I am appealing to those who have the knowledge and the foresight to solve the problem. I reject the conservative notion that this is not as bad a problem as others suggest. I reject it because they are wrong. Simple as that. Why do I say they are wrong? Because I have and am witnessing humanity poison the planet.


Even Global warming? You have witnessed global warming? I like nature, I'm for not poisoning lakes and that stuff. But I just don't think that man-made global warming is happening. And the ones who pay the paycheck are the taxpayers, right? I'm all for respecting authority in my personal life, but not always in politics. Wouldn't you agree that the founding fathers were disrespecting authority? And if we established, that we can't judge the science for ourselves, the only thing that is left is blindly believing consensus, right?
 
Elmud
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:04 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
Even Global warming? You have witnessed global warming? I like nature, I'm for not poisoning lakes and that stuff. But I just don't think that man-made global warming is happening. And the ones who pay the paycheck are the taxpayers, right? I'm all for respecting authority in my personal life, but not always in politics. Wouldn't you agree that the founding fathers were disrespecting authority? And if we established, that we can't judge the science for ourselves, the only thing that is left is blindly believing consensus, right?

No, not blindly. The "evidence" is clear. If you cannot see how things are changing for yourself, well, i don't know what to tell you.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:12 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud;60769 wrote:
No, not blindly. The "evidence" is clear. If you cannot see how things are changing for yourself, well, i don't know what to tell you.


Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't see it.
 
Elmud
 
Reply Thu 30 Apr, 2009 05:25 pm
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't see it.
Thats okay. You're entitled to yours as well. In any case, I am optimistic that those who are qualified to address this problem will eventually figure things out.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 03:02 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
I'm still reading, but it's mostly just words.



Any government wants an excuse for more power.

On the strength of phony science, the federal government would still be willing to impose new taxes on energy consumption, cut economic growth, reduce our standard of living, and create bookshelves filled with new regulation governing most facets of the lives of Canadians.
What a great comment its only words.When have we seen massive increases on energy consumption taxes:perplexed: and when has any government recommended a cut in economic growth:perplexed:.Answer the questions posed in that link, i know they are only words but just answer with only words, please..
 
Mr Fight the Power
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 05:07 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
Because cynicism is an intellectual sickness. Skepticism, on the other hand, is healthy. Be skeptical, don't be cynical. Not everyone is a selfish imp.


How is skepticism useful without some level of distrust?

Say what you want for skepticism, I am all for acknowledging doubt, but all the doubt in the world still leaves us dogmatic followers without some determination as to how much doubt we should actually accept.

Are you saying that there is some base standard at which I should believe someone is not willing to screw me over? Where do I say "This evidence is insufficient, but beyond this point damning"?
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 05:31 am
@xris,
xris;60806 wrote:
What a great comment its only words.When have we seen massive increases on energy consumption taxes:perplexed: and when has any government recommended a cut in economic growth:perplexed:.Answer the questions posed in that link, i know they are only words but just answer with only words, please..


Okay...
Quote:
Yet despite all the complexities, a firm and ever-growing body of evidence points to a clear picture:

Climate is complicated, ok. But what's a body? What's firm? What does "a firm and ever-growing body of evidence" mean? That's saying here is consensus without saying it. It's purposely ambiguous. It's just words, there is no meaning.

Quote:

In fact, a recent poll found that 97.4% of active climatologists agree that human activity is warming the planet.

Climate change sceptics sometimes claim that many leading scientists question climate change. Well, it all depends on what you mean by "many" and "leading". For instance, in April 2006, 60 "leading scientists" signed a letter urging Canada's new prime minister to review his country's commitment to the Kyoto protocol.


Look at this. They write about scientists not agreeing with global warming, but then they back that up with a number about climatologists. Well being a active climatologist pretty much means agreeing with global warming, right? What else do you think climatologists do all day? There was barely such a thing a few years ago. They might as well have noted that 97.4% of global warming proponents agree with global warming.

It seems they don't have a "The world is actually cooling" link... go figure.

More to come. It's actually pretty funny, because that site phrases things to never really say anything that could be called out as inaccurate, yet just with wording it leaves you with an impression.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 06:57 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
Okay...

Climate is complicated, ok. But what's a body? What's firm? What does "a firm and ever-growing body of evidence" mean? That's saying here is consensus without saying it. It's purposely ambiguous. It's just words, there is no meaning.



Look at this. They write about scientists not agreeing with global warming, but then they back that up with a number about climatologists. Well being a active climatologist pretty much means agreeing with global warming, right? What else do you think climatologists do all day? There was barely such a thing a few years ago. They might as well have noted that 97.4% of global warming proponents agree with global warming.

It seems they don't have a "The world is actually cooling" link... go figure.

More to come. It's actually pretty funny, because that site phrases things to never really say anything that could be called out as inaccurate, yet just with wording it leaves you with an impression.
So what of the evidence do you dispute ? Do you claim there is no global warming let alone what is causing it? There are two types of deniers one that say its not happening and others who admit it but claim its not mans fault, what are you?
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 07:47 am
@xris,
xris;60823 wrote:
So what of the evidence do you dispute ? Do you claim there is no global warming let alone what is causing it? There are two types of deniers one that say its not happening and others who admit it but claim its not mans fault, what are you?


Denier... lol. Well then global warming believers are truthers.

I think there is warming and cooling caused by the sun. Maybe there is warming, but it is impossible to measure accurately. And to predict that it is caused by human activity is completely unknowable. I did a bit of reading and most of those numbers are pretty much guesses.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 08:00 am
@EmperorNero,
EmperorNero wrote:
Denier... lol. Well then global warming believers are truthers.

I think there is warming and cooling caused by the sun. Maybe there is warming, but it is impossible to measure accurately. And to predict that it is caused by human activity is completely unknowable. I did a bit of reading and most of those numbers are pretty much guesses.
There is warming and cooling by the sun yes we all admit that , no problem there.There is possible warming but you dont know and you dont know if its caused by man....Hummm, so you dont know anything? So why are you denying the facts that scientists for whatever reason are telling you? You dont seem to be fully in control of your beliefs on this subject.
It appears that the facts that have been put before you are being manipulated by scientists for government ends.So it all comes down to massive fraud being conducted by world scientists, is that your case?
If you could confirm that you understand there are figures to prove global warming by mans use of fossil fuels but these are false evidence, produced by fraudulent scientists?
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 09:47 am
@xris,
xris;60828 wrote:
So why are you denying the facts that scientists for whatever reason are telling you?


It's just too convenient a political tool. Whopdydoo... The science just happens to be a perfect justification for what governments want. Pure coincidence.
And why pursue it with such zeal? The ruthless hunting down of any word of disagreement. It's seems like poisoned rivers and extinct species are no big deal any more compared to a few degrees warmer by the year 3500. The indoctrination in schools is really scary to me. What's the need for that? That's just right out of Goebbels handbook. Did you hear that parents in the UK sued because their kids were forced to watch an inconvenient truth like five times? The mandatory global warming weeks are the worst. Where students have to debate from different perspectives, and of course there is a "oil company" perspective. To make sure that every child is super sure that the only one possibly disagreeing must work for an oil company. It's propaganda tactics right out of the soviet union. Always accuse the other side of doing what you are doing.
Why all that? I tell you why. Because it is a tool to get policies passed.

xris;60828 wrote:

It appears that the facts that have been put before you are being manipulated by scientists for government ends.So it all comes down to massive fraud being conducted by world scientists, is that your case?


Not scientists, left-wing governments.

xris;60828 wrote:
If you could confirm that you understand there are figures to prove global warming by mans use of fossil fuels but these are false evidence, produced by fraudulent scientists?


How come you trust the governments false evidence? Becaus they claim consensus. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 10:46 am
@EmperorNero,
Answer the damned question, stop this hysterical rhetoric and answer the question..Do you honestly believe scientists are lying for governments intentions????????Please friend...pretty please..
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 12:33 pm
@xris,
xris;60844 wrote:
Answer the damned question, stop this hysterical rhetoric and answer the question..Do you honestly believe scientists are lying for governments intentions????????Please friend...pretty please..


In that phrasing, no. I don't think a large number of scientists are really supporting the global warming theory.
As for those who do support it, I wouldn't say they are lying, but being forced by todays financial reality of being a scientist to emphasize what their bosses want to hear (and leave out the rest).

---------- Post added at 08:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 PM ----------

xris, you always say that greed is the reason that moral obligations are forgotten in the pursuit of income, why is that different with global warming scientists? They are trying to make a living.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 03:33 pm
@EmperorNero,
Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
How is skepticism useful without some level of distrust?


Skepticism requires some level of distrust, but skepticism does not require us to assume that everyone is a heartless, selfish, liar.

Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
Say what you want for skepticism, I am all for acknowledging doubt, but all the doubt in the world still leaves us dogmatic followers without some determination as to how much doubt we should actually accept.


Skepticism demands that we doubt everything. The difference between skepticism and cynicism is that cynicism based doubt on needless negative assumptions about the character of other people.

EmperorNero wrote:
I don't think a large number of scientists are really supporting the global warming theory.


Then you either have not looked into the matter (because the vast majority of scientists working in related fields do acknowledge man-made global warming) or you have ignored the facts.
 
EmperorNero
 
Reply Fri 1 May, 2009 04:06 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas;60868 wrote:
Then you either have not looked into the matter (because the vast majority of scientists working in related fields do acknowledge man-made global warming) or you have ignored the facts.


Really? I hereby declare that a consensus of scientists rejects the global warming theory. See. That's how easy claiming consensus is.
 
 

 
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