The aims of Aliens - Only for believers

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

You've been addressed more than one time. If you still don't understand, I can either send you an explicit e-mail, or I'll just suggest that you leave. Skepticism is part of this forum. You are perfectly allowed to go into threads and ask "Why did God create us?". That is not the same as what you did here: You started a thread and then literally said, "Aliens created us", and then denounced any opposition by shouting, "Skeptics!!".

I now see the problem, not that I didn't see it before and address it, but you are saying I am force feeding all my assumptions down people's throats and opposing those who wont accept my force fed theories by shouting "skeptics", now I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I did not start my thread in such a way, I do not expect anyone to immediately accept what I say, and I never once said "what I say, goes", I am only giving my opinions and theories, which were only supposed to give us a starting and point, and I only asked that believers, or people willing to just assume that Aliens exist, take place in this thread, for the sake of conversation, and this conversation requires that assumption, just like a conversation asking "Why did God create us" requires the assumption that God exists. I find it strange that you target me, and no one else with such emotion whenever I try to explain why Aliens deserve a place in philosophy, and this is the only thing I'm trying to get across, not that my theories are definitely correct!

@Zetherin,

This has not been the approach as you try to claim,the subject has been question not just the manner of its delivery. I have tried to introduce another dimension to the debate but you insist on bringing back the old reasons not to.Ignore the bits you find offensive and concentrate on those you feel worthy of debate.I have had constant god like claims thrown at me here and on other occassions but im not allowed to question the basic stupidity of their argument.I admit some of these claims here are just as strange as the godly but i still insist one is treated with understanding while the other is dismissed out of hand.

@GHOST phil,

Continue on gentleman, I have nothing more to say.

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Continue on gentleman, I have nothing more to say.

Well thats what I call throwing your dummy out of the pram.

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Actually, we don't have a problem. As Theaetetus said, anything can be an unidentified flying object; it's relative to the observer. If we had a human here from 800A.D and he saw a 747 fly by, it'd be an unidentified flying object to him. He'd probably apply the same thought process - reaching for something supernatural, or, at the very least, exciting. The fact that we don't know is not significant. There are many things we don't know, and we don't attach this profound 'problem' to those things. We only attach this profound 'problem' to those things that seem to excite us, that drive us towards something that stirs our emotions.

This is the type of reasoning that degraded the debate.....If we had a historic figure he would think a jumbo was a spiritual experience , previously we where confusing model planes with ufos.No amount of circumstantial evidence would let certain people discuss this subject without resorting to childish innuendose.

@xris,

Xris,

If you have any further questions for me, don't hesitate to PM. I sense a very brash tone from you, and if you care to insult please use my comment board or my PM box, don't litter this already butchered thread. The post you've just shown was in the context of expressing the overzealous nature I saw from GHOST's postings, and an attempt to put the sightings in a more practical perspective.

It appears GHOST is directing this in a more philosophical light, and that is why I said there's nothing else to say in regards to pacifying the situation. I want you to both know, again, however, that my debacle was not about aliens per se. I truly hope you both realize this. Create a thread about God, or Goblins, evangelizing, and you'll get the same response.

I won't be arguing in circles with either of you, as this is not the place - this is the place for me to learn. I will respond if you post something intelligent and relevant to the material at hand, but not if the posts are antagonizing in any way. Again, my board and PM box are awaiting your explicit material. Thanks for your insight.

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Continue on gentleman, I have nothing more to say.

:brickwall:

Zetherin wrote:

I won't be arguing in circles with either of you, as this is not the place - this is the place for me to learn. I will respond if you post something intelligent and relevant to the material at hand, but not if the posts are antagonizing in any way. Again, my board and PM box are awaiting your explicit material. Thanks for your insight.

I'm not here to send explicit material to anyone. Smile

@GHOST phil,

GHOST wrote:

I'm not here to send explicit material to anyone.

Continue on, bro. As long as you stay within a philosophical light, I cheer you.

@xris,

xris wrote:

We are not debating the possibilities of warp space speed or the how they get here , if they exist they could be our next door neighbour in a parallel universe concerned about the effects we may have on their place in space. I dont know but you cant discount the idea because you cant conceive of their science.Its a phenomena that is not be classified as a bunch of loonies irritating you.

Dude, seriously you are talking like a politician. What I mean by that is you dont allow people to explore these ideas for themselves. instead you want everyone to be exactly where your at. This serves no purpose for everyones growth.

Its hard to not claim everything I believe in because I dont know myself. Ive read stuff from Jordan maxwell and others like Richard hoagland, too listening to almost all the project Camelot interviews. I ve read about Mj 12, Dulce base, etc....

What I'm trying to say is nothing is irrelevant. People have different questions about everything. Stop pushing your fears of non belief ahead of finding the truth. Your giving us truth seekers a bad name.

peace

@Joe,

So, philosophically speaking, let's say these hypothetical aliens were hypothetically the ones behind the bible (new testament, as well as old).

Now, would I be crazy to jump all over the promise of heaven, especially if it would appear to be just as likely that they came here to harvest gold from the earth (for their electronic equipment) and use us as the slaves to mine it?

Hypothetically speaking, wouldn't that be just plain irresponsible of me? If not, then what might their mechanism be for giving us everlasting life after we die? Are we talking memory (soul) transfer, or just good ol' fashioned brain transplants?

@Pusyphus,

Pusyphus wrote:

So, philosophically speaking, let's say these hypothetical aliens were hypothetically the ones behind the bible (new testament, as well as old).

Now, would I be crazy to jump all over the promise of heaven, especially if it would appear to be just as likely that they came here to harvest gold from the earth (for their electronic equipment) and use us as the slaves to mine it?

Hypothetically speaking, wouldn't that be just plain irresponsible of me? If not, then what might their mechanism be for giving us everlasting life after we die? Are we talking memory (soul) transfer, or just good ol' fashioned brain transplants?

Where do you assume that aliens grant everlasting life?

@Joe,

I'm just hypothesizing that the bible was issued by them. And if the bible was meant to introduce them to us, what is the likelihood that they could make good on the promise of heaven, as it is presented in the bible?

@Pusyphus,

Pusyphus wrote:

I'm just hypothesizing that the bible was issued by them. And if the bible was meant to introduce them to us, what is the likelihood that they could make good on the promise of heaven, as it is presented in the bible?

But why just the Bible? There are dozens of other religious texts, all of which have had great influence on people. Moreover, there are many notions of afterlife.

Not to mention, that, according to what I've read, the aliens have been genetically manipulating us way before the bible was even written. Why would they choose to communicate with us only 2,000 years ago? What is significant to them about Jesus Christ?

@Zetherin,

Well, you're right. It's not just the bible. But, I believe the scriptures of the "major" religions (the bible, koran, torah, etc.) all prescribe a paradise-like afterlife, I think. Their intended audience is a large percentage of the world's population.

That's a good point about the time we've been around before the bible. I imagine there we were, supposedly, with an engineered capacity for intellectual thought, long, long before "god" came around. I guess that explains why separate religions would have had to be introduced at different times, around the globe. What a mess...

It makes me see how much of a stretch it would have been to go from philosophizing about "that force [who] controls the weather and the seasons" all the way to "meet god, [who] will give you eternal life.."

Obviously, for this hypothesis, Jesus Christ was one of them. So were the others (muhammed, sons of god, angels, etc.). I just don't see what would be so special about it.

@Pusyphus,

Pusyphus wrote:

Well, you're right. It's not just the bible. But, I believe the scriptures of the "major" religions (the bible, koran, torah, etc.) all prescribe a paradise-like afterlife, I think. Their intended audience is a large percentage of the world's population.

That's a good point about the time we've been around before the bible. I imagine there we were, supposedly, with an engineered capacity for intellectual thought, long, long before "god" came around. I guess that explains why separate religions would have had to be introduced at different times, around the globe. What a mess...

It makes me see how much of a stretch it would have been to go from philosophizing about "that force [who] controls the weather and the seasons" all the way to "meet god, [who] will give you eternal life.."

Obviously, for this hypothesis, Jesus Christ was one of them. So were the others (muhammed, sons of god, angels, etc.). I just don't see what would be so special about it.

Firstly, the existence of Jesus Christ has never been conclusively proven. There are some that only consider him as a symbol (for those things preached) and that the actual person never existed. Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Next, we have archeological proof of many of the religious texts within the last couple hundred years [Who wrote it, why, and when - placing things in context]. And mind you, there are still religious texts being produced to this very day, all of which we have documentation for with our more sophisticated technology. So, unless the aliens are intermittently (for some logical reason I can't ponder) "issuing" us texts of faith, from our initial consideration of "God" up until this very moment, right before our eyes, I don't see this hypothesis flying. This isn't even taking into account that there are many spiritual views that don't even have text (or didn't throughout some part of history, nor is this taking into account that religious figures probably haven't been around for all of our existence (Didy could probably debate this better).

But I'm still going to play Devil's Advocate here: If we are to say that aliens are channeling thoughts into our minds, making us write text for whatever reason (in this case to instill a notion of afterlife), then why would they just stop at religion? Is it not reasonable to extrapolate this out to all thought? Perhaps the phenomenon we experience as "consciousness" is merely a system designed by the aliens to control us; we are drones, systematically completing duties. I mean, this has to be true if we were genetically manipulated, right? They probably have a much greater understanding of the consciousness we share, and if they've been genetically manipulating our species (and who knows what else) for thousands of years, it would seem probable that they could install consciousness just like an operating system, no?

@Zetherin,

Yes, that is conceivable. And, I do not know that it isn't the case. This thing we call consciousness or awareness, maybe it is not our own. Now, without trying to sound like a looney tune, I cannot say that I know for sure that my consciousness is "mine" per se. And I assume the same is true for all of us. But, that gets into a discussion that seems pretty difficult to calibrate.

If that were the case though, then you make a very interesting point. However, I tend to believe there are universal limits, as it were, to the things that are possible with life for an individual from any species. For example, I cannot conceive that our memories (or souls, if you will) can actually be transferred from one being to another. For me, I suppose it makes the idea of any meaningful reincarnation or afterlife appear to be physically impossible. No logical inconsistencies there...

And, in any case, I can't understand why they would be trying to convince us that there was more to life and death [making it better] than what we see, unless there was something about our lives as humans, as opposed to theirs, that we would all find truly horrible. (I'm not a negative person.)

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

But I'm still going to play Devil's Advocate here: If we are to say that aliens are channeling thoughts into our minds, making us write text for whatever reason (in this case to instill a notion of afterlife), then why would they just stop at religion? Is it not reasonable to extrapolate this out to all thought? Perhaps the phenomenon we experience as "consciousness" is merely a system designed by the aliens to control us; we are drones, systematically completing duties. I mean, this has to be true if we were genetically manipulated, right? They probably have a much greater understanding of the consciousness we share, and if they've been genetically manipulating our species (and who knows what else) for thousands of years, it would seem probable that they could install consciousness just like an operating system, no?

I might of missed this, but what is the reasoning behind thinking that the Aliens wrote the bible and whatever else, why would they want us to believe in heaven etc? So, why are the Aliens controlling us, what are they using us "drones" for, and why do you assume that if they are genetically manipulating us, they must be controlling and using us? I also think using the mind like a computer, installing "software" if you will, if at all possible as as Pusyphus suggest, would be very different, and probably a lot more complicated than genetic engineering to the point of being able to create intelligent life.

@GHOST phil,

GHOST wrote:

I might of missed this, but what is the reasoning behind thinking that the Aliens wrote the bible and whatever else, why would they want us to believe in heaven etc?

Oh, I have absolutely no idea. I was simply humoring his hypothetical.

Quote:

So, why are the Aliens controlling us, what are they using us "drones" for, and why do you assume that if they are genetically manipulating us, they must be controlling and using us?

Well, logically, from what we can see through our own genetic manipulation of things, we usually have a purpose. For example, we have vegetative genetic manipulation to control and utilize different fruits and vegetables - we can improve upon the natural nutrition content. We also work with genetic manipulation of rats (and arguably apes) for scientific research. So if another, more intelligent species, were genetically manipulating us, is it not fair to say that perhaps there is a reason? That we may be an experiment of sorts? I don't know the reason, I was hoping you did.

@Pusyphus,

Pusyphus wrote:

Yes, that is conceivable. And, I do not know that it isn't the case. This thing we call consciousness or awareness, maybe it is not our own. Now, without trying to sound like a looney tune, I cannot say that I know for sure that my consciousness is "mine" per se. And I assume the same is true for all of us. But, that gets into a discussion that seems pretty difficult to calibrate.

If that were the case though, then you make a very interesting point. However, I tend to believe there are universal limits, as it were, to the things that are possible with life for an individual from any species. For example, I cannot conceive that our memories (or souls, if you will) can actually be transferred from one being to another. For me, I suppose it makes the idea of any meaningful reincarnation or afterlife appear to be physically impossible. No logical inconsistencies there...

And, in any case, I can't understand why they would be trying to convince us that there was more to life and death [making it better] than what we see, unless there was something about our lives as humans, as opposed to theirs, that we would all find truly horrible. (I'm not a negative person.)

It a very nice old hypothesis but thats all it is. Ive seen and heard all before mainly from the charlatan Von Daniken.He proposed Indian Hindu stories of the wars of the Hindu gods being more like aliens having dogs fights in the skies over the Hindu kush mountain range.He also dragged out Inca drawings and made pagan gods into space pilots.Sorry i may support your right to debate these issues but you need to produce more than you have to convince me its more than wishful thinking.

@xris,

These debates should be discussing the core issues and not the fringe opinions that make serious claims without any evidence .I would rather we asked the question do we actually see these unexplained occurrences as delusional or explainable in a more scientific manner.It was brought to my attention these sightings sometimes occurring just before earthquake activity. Does this tell us the strains felt by the earth manifest itself in some highly charged electrical phenomena created by this strain.To just try and say they are not such and such ignores the facts, we are not asking in a more objective manner.Both sides become entrenched in a tit for tat dialogue.They may well be aliens or a natural activity but till we both keep an open mind it will not be resolved.The simple fact is we see things we cant explain, they are not model planes or Venus in decent nor are they for certain little green men trying to change our gene pool.

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