We're not concerned with how aliens may have gotten here, because the premise of the debate is that they are hypothetically already here.

You appear to be a bright individual, but highly skeptical. You seem to take this discussion personally, when there is no need. Maybe you can discuss why the idea that there must not be other intelligent life is so personal to you here, if you can translate it thru the hypothesis that they are already here.

And for the record, though I don't believe your or Ghost's fantastical stories, I actually do believe it's highly improbable that we are the only intelligent life in the universe. But to claim that I know, to present make-believe stories and regard them as fact, or science, or evidence, is just silly. There's so much extrapolation with these 'theories', they never prove anything.

I have a question about traveling through space at light speed. Would a ship going that fast be impossible to protect from all the micro matter flying through space, or would there be a vacuum created to protect it?

I have a question about traveling through space at light speed. Would a ship going that fast be impossible to protect from all the micro matter flying through space, or would there be a vacuum created to protect it?

As, I said, we are still being watched carefully, and I have devised a conlusion from all this, the reason I think they are studying and watching us closely, which I will state in a moment, and I don't see it as corrupting "natural" DNA, it's all just perfectly reasonable science.

I'm just saying that they enjoy science, which gives them more motive for conducting such experiments, because I do think our planet is far from the only "ant farm". They do actually have an ultimate goal, which I'm about to theorize on.

OK, so here is my conclusion, my thoughts on why they are doing this whole thing, what their goals are, and what will happen at the end of this time limit.

They found Earth full of life when they developed the technology to explore the depths of the universe. As I said, they gave the ape a slighly modified body and brain, they probably chose the ape because it was most similar to themselves, and they could see the potential, so they modified the ape, and now it was self-aware, it was a species totally different from the original ape, it was the human. So the human began to civilize, colinize, develop communities, technology and the such. Now, the Aliens had a goal in mind from the moment the created the "human". Not only would they find it interesting and informative, to study us, but they wanted us to achieve greatness in a given time, greatness in the form of understanding, truth, and real cosmic truth comes in the forms of philosophical, metaphysical and spiritual understanding, we must rid ourselves of the materialistic and conditioned views we hold, we must become aware of our higher selves, our souls, our spirituality, we must also rid our selves of war, crime, anger, violence, arrogance and greed, we must step up a level and come together as a species, we must become something they feel safe they can release into the universe, we must become a species they can respect and admire, we must become a species they can be proud of. Now, they figure if we can't do it in a certian time, which we are not, they are going to need to intervene, they will let the catastophic events of 2012 happen, but they will only save those who they feel deserve to be saved, it will be like a cleansing process, they will rid our species of the undesirable part of the population which, will be most of it, they will let those who are saved in on a few important facts, and after the events which only start on 2012, and slowly build up from there, have passed, they will place the saved back on Earth. It will be like a kick in the behind, they will enable us to gain a huge evolutionary advancement, and so they continue studying and waiting, until will can be released into the wild, free from our zoo, and zoo keepers.


They don't want to remain hidden, I think they just don't care if we see them, infact I think they are hoping we soon realize their existence without them having to let us know themselves, it must be getting really rediculous in their eyes. They were probably told to remain hidden, but they obviously won't listen to us, especially the corrupt people that want them to remain hidden, and they most certianly can create their own safe heavens, which are most likely not even on Earth, they would be on nearby planets in our solar system, and there are lots of Government, NASA, and astromony related people who claim that there are infact huge structures on the moon and under the surface of Mars, but yes, they have introduced themselves to people in higher places, and I do suspect that they operate in, and have helped build, our massive underground infastructure. I suspect that we have very close relations with these beings in some parts of our secret Government operations.

Well, you have heard my theory, and I have clearly stated that these beings have no negative, evil, or corrupt objectives or motives, so the most obvious answer as to what to do, is just to wake up to ourselves, and step up a level, in the way I have stated. They are of no threat, they are not like that, they realize that war, crime, anger, violence, arrogance and greed are just pathetic, useless, and unintelligent ways of going about things, they are past all of that, not to mention, they have been around for as long as we have, and if they were angry or hostile in any way, we would have been gone a long time ago, it would like be stepping on an ant to them. We are most definitely of no threat to them, and they are of no threat to us.

You're aware of the LHC? If not, google it.

Here's a decent article regarding the Higgs Boson Theory: Higgs Boson: A Ghost in the Machine - TIME

There are some that suggest that time travel is possible through this theory, and the LHC will make or break this. If the "God particle" is found, much of metaphysics will begin to make it's way to physics, as far as I know. "Science fiction is only fiction relative to the time in which we live"

According to modern physics, as far as I know, it's impossible to protect a moving piece of matter at that speed from disseminating, let alone actually achieving that speed with the matter. However, there are theories out there that suggest otherwise, and the LHC may very well hold some answers. To put modern physics into perspective, we still have no idea even what gravity is: We have a Newtonian equation, but there are many disagreements (Einstein's relativity) and observations that simply do not add up. According to a friend of mine, depending on the findings of the LHC, we could have actually been wrong about much of what we now consider to be modern physics. Basically, we would have to work all the way back and start anew from the 20th century on.

I'm no scientist, though, and I'm sure others have more information regarding this. Maybe make a thread over in the science section?

Tough to say, Joe. Hypothetically speaking, what makes you think they would have to "come from" somewhere else? I mean, we are here, right? That's evidence that it is possible for life to take hold here. It doesn't rule out the possibility that other intelligent life existed here before us. To the contrary, it indicates that it is likely.

Of course, if there was intelligent life here before we got here, the question then becomes where did they go? And, the answer could be that they didn't go anywhere. We could assume that there technology is greater than ours, enough so to keep out of our sight. The next question would be...why?

You brought up a good point with an earlier post. I think the chances that more than one separate species would be involved. Makes one think of the logistics. Supposing that the species arrived one at a time, what would the protocol be? Do you think there is some implied "prime directive" that most/all visitors would obey? Or do you think it would be some sort of Manifest Destiny garbage?

And, do you think the presence of some existing civilization appearing to have intelligence make a difference one way or the other?

Yeh, Zero point is where its at. I have heard of LHC and have a friend trying to break it down for me. Ultimately it seems more logical this way then the suspended light particles experiments. Although whether or not its light suspended is apparently in question. Anyways its interesting the information we could get about space/time dynamics. It is guessed that there are more simple methods then say space curvature and what not.

Thanks.



Well ive read some stuff on ancient civilizations and the idea that there is evidence pertaining to knowledge and traces of other worldly technology.

interesting examples are:


The lines and figures over the Earth, the Peruvian Nazca lines and "roads", the Bolivian "ceques", the radial lines coming from ancient ceremonial sites, and the British "ley" lines, precisely straight lines which connect ancient sacred sites.

also the age old questions of the pyramids and their construction.

As for where aliens would actually come from? It is interesting to think about how little we've explored the entire earth. but mostly today scientists largely agree on the basic structure of the Earth. It does not include alien hideouts or underworlds of any kind. Some diagrams compare the layers of the Earth to an egg. The yolk is the core, the egg white the mantle (a unsolid layer of rock). The shell of the egg is the crust, the surface where we are.

But underground caves? who knows. We havent explored that much. And i'll be honest, underground stuff pertaining to the government is what i wanna know. The ones with secrets, usually have the juicey stuff.

How do you conclude they are no threat if you also think they will wipe most of us out in a few years? I'd say that represents a significant threat, and so would the average person. Are you saying that the government(s) would sit back and watch? That would suggest that the politicians are already the chosen ones. This leads to the conclusion that we the people are not responsible for these wars and such as it is, and it also indicates that this alien force has had a hand in the attrocities all along, one way or another. So, please explain this discrepancy in your viewpoint in a way that shows you have a position, and that you are not simply refuting the positions of others.

Yeh, Zero point is where its at. I have heard of LHC and have a friend trying to break it down for me. Ultimately it seems more logical this way then the suspended light particles experiments. Although whether or not its light suspended is apparently in question. Anyways its interesting the information we could get about space/time dynamics. It is guessed that there are more simple methods then say space curvature and what not.

I'm sure they do.
Hypothetically speaking, do you think it would be more likely that the ones with the secrets would be keeping them under duress, or more likely that they keep the secrets to maintain a financial advantage over the rest of us?

I was hoping my attempt at making it more philosophical would have created more input from those who oppose this subject on principle..I understand that most philosophers here usually carry a lot of knowledge about the subject they debate but on this occasion it appears the only principle we observe is of total disbelief..I am in agreement with the view that why has god become acceptable to debate but not aliens.Maybe we should say these aliens are gods and it would be more objectively discussed.Has any one actually read my link about the alien experience and the findings it has produced ? Philosophically speaking this subject and its believers deserve examination by rationale rather than it be demonised.If then we cant find any of their evidence worthy we should burn them..

I was hoping my attempt at making it more philosophical would have created more input from those who oppose this subject on principle..I understand that most philosophers here usually carry a lot of knowledge about the subject they debate but on this occasion it appears the only principle we observe is of total disbelief..I am in agreement with the view that why has god become acceptable to debate but not aliens.Maybe we should say these aliens are gods and it would be more objectively discussed.Has any one actually read my link about the alien experience and the findings it has produced ? Philosophically speaking this subject and its believers deserve examination by rationale rather than it be demonised.If then we cant find any of their evidence worthy we should burn them..

I've already clarified this. I suggest you go back and read. If you still can't find it, I'll copy and paste.

I was hoping my attempt at making it more philosophical would have created more input from those who oppose this subject on principle..I understand that most philosophers here usually carry a lot of knowledge about the subject they debate but on this occasion it appears the only principle we observe is of total disbelief..I am in agreement with the view that why has god become acceptable to debate but not aliens.Maybe we should say these aliens are gods and it would be more objectively discussed.Has any one actually read my link about the alien experience and the findings it has produced ? Philosophically speaking this subject and its believers deserve examination by rationale rather than it be demonised.If then we cant find any of their evidence worthy we should burn them..

Personally, I believe the argument for aliens, God, the afterlife, and the soul are all pretty much on the same level. They often rely on unverifiable claims, circular logic, concepts beyond the current capability of human understanding, and pure speculation.

Just speculating about the technology required to travel to earth from a distant planet--much less a distant galaxy--is pretty much a pointless discussion from a philosophical standpoint. Because we can only understand technology from own understanding of what technology is, we cannot know that a different being would develop technologies that we could understand.

If philosophy is about understanding and critical thinking, a dialogue that leads into stereotyped name calling is a total failure of dialectic thought and discussion--one of the fundamental purposes of philosophy.

Yes please because i cant find where you replied to or commented on my link or satisfied my concerns about the equal treatment of subjects.Im not saying i believe or even contemplate these strange stories but i do see a strange inconsistency in how they are approached.A benevolent god is as strange a concept to me as fairies or aliens.

GHOST,

As Icon and Justin noted, it is perfectly fine to philosophize about aliens. I understand that you believe that a thread dedicated to, "Do we have souls?" in this forum would have a better outcome. I can tell you that this is not necessarily true. Why? Because if the individual decided to preach, "Allah made all of us, owns our souls, and if we do not do his bidding we will all perish!" and then disregarded all other positions, we would have a deconstructive thread on our hands.

Similarly, the way you started this thread was not with an open-mind. When anyone even considered your position, you would direct us to your other thread, and even there there wasn't ample consideration! That's not acceptable, do you not see? If you had initially started off the thread with consideration and the intent to philosophize, not preach, we wouldn't be here right now. Remember: Share your truth, but do not force feed it.

So we have the problem at hand, people are more interested in skepticizing and arguing over the existence of Aliens, mean while the thread goes totally off topic and spirals out of control...do I go onto threads asking "why did God created us" or something similar, and start spewing skepticism every where, over Gods existence, no, because it's off topic!

Personally, I believe the argument for aliens, God, the afterlife, and the soul are all pretty much on the same level. They often rely on unverifiable claims, circular logic, concepts beyond the current capability of human understanding, and pure speculation.