The aims of Aliens - Only for believers

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Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 12:12 am
Why have the Aliens been visiting Earth, what are their motives and goals. We can use the following information to help narrow things down:

-They try to remain hidden to the public, this doesn't necessarily mean the Government or secret compartments of it are not fully aware of their presence.
-They do abduct people, what they do to the abductee is mostly unknown but is said to consist of implantations, mutilations and genetic manipulations.
-Their technology is at least 1000 years ahead of ours.
-They can telepathically communicate with each other and us.
-There is more than one species visiting Earth.

That's about all we know about them, am I quite certain that all those facts are correct, although if they do not fit in with a theory you have, don't worry about it, just tell us your theory and we will see what conclusions can be made.

I will share with you all, my theory on why they are here, to get things rolling:

Long ago, when Aliens first discovered Earth, they found that the most intelligent form of life was the primates. They were already so advances and intelligent by this stage that they were able to take their own DNA and through some extreme genetic engineering they were able to combine a tiny amount of it with the ape. In doing so, they produced a more intelligent and self-aware ape. This is backed up with scientific evidence, scientist are lacking in fossils that fill in the link of evolution at this stage. We were now infact, a genetic experiment created by these Aliens. They have been, and still are abducting people to implant "computer chips" that monitor our bodily functions, they also perform genetic experiments on people, some are returned, some are not. They watched us create a society, they watched us advance and learn until in recent years, we were advanced enough for them to show themselves to the Government we had established. Since then, the Government, or secret compartments of the Government have been working with Aliens. They have built and established massive underground infastructure, and all this is kept secret from the masses. These facilities contain extremely advanced technology such as free-energy and anti-gravity technology. This Alien race has absolute control and power over Earth. We are still seen as an experiment and property of this race. Now, this last bit of my theory, that I am about to explain, is the part I am least sure about. I believe that other Alien races have become aware of what the Aliens controlling us are doing. These are the UFO's that have been revealling themselves more and more, and taking people on trips through the galaxy, showing them extraordinary things. I believe this Alien race is preparing to war with the aliens controlling us, they are here to set us free and show us the truth about reality.

I can sense there are a lot of flaws in my theory and I would like to know what others think the aims of these creatures are.
 
nameless
 
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 04:26 am
@GHOST phil,
Why is this in the 'philosophy of science' section?
 
Khethil
 
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 05:27 am
@nameless,
Good Call, Thread Moved.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 05:56 am
@Khethil,
You are taking all the possibilities into a realm of imagination and desire.If you as a politician in goverment new of this,why in heavens name would you not convey this information to the masses.I have an interest in the phenomena and dont dismiss things out of hand but to make such claims withour real proof is shooting yourself dead before you start.

People see things that on occassions are not identifiable and they make astounding reading..but we must remain open minded. Its the same wth abductions the experiences they have are uncanny in their similarity with certain number of them never previously knowing the details of them. The strange thing is they never appear to leave their rooms in the normal physical manner ,so is it another realm of existance that they are taken to or are they just delusional .On the face of it there seems not lgical reasoning but then im not a true believer as you are , just an open minded observer.Something is going on but what it is i have no idea..Keep the faith you may be right,who knows..

For those who maybe observing and thinking something is not as it should be . Do you ever look at other claims in the same light ? the ability to believe in a benevolent god etc..you as philosophers are extremely narrow minded when commenting on these two claims. It is with the certainty of faith that joins them and with your differing attention divides them.No one thinks of a devout christian as nutter ,do you ? I hopefuly attend them both with the same scrutiny.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 03:42 pm
@GHOST phil,
Ghost:), in your thread you asked for us to point out any faults to your theory. So here we go. Oh and I just want to point out that I do believe in aliens, technically... as much as I believe life on Earth exists.

Your Theory


It seems to me you feel these aliens which we have no tangible evidence for are against us or in control of us in some way. It seems this way only because you say stuff like:


  • "They do abduct people, what they do to the abductee is mostly unknown but is said to consist of implantations, mutilations and genetic manipulations."
  • "genetic experiment"
  • "telepathically communicate with each other and us" (not implying anything, just merely point out that psychotics tend to have this delusion)


There are many faults in the theory which automatically tell me it is simply very, VERY unlikely. First off, (and however this is just MHO) I have noticed in looking at paranoia delusions that there are no true insights that extend human knowledge. In other words, the fear of control over the subject from the 'diviner being' or "against the subject" seems to reminisce around thoughts of supremacy because supremacy is less easier to have control over or resolve in the mind.

This tends to occur over people who have not had to solve many problems or have had little hardships to deal with until a sudden traumatic experience or genetic effect. And as I basically said, this supremacy is constrained by either the subject's knowledge, or false intuition (ex. "telepathy, mind reading, revival in a different body, possessing the body, etc) But yeah, that's my opinion. So in the brain's effort to cause a conundrum to the mind, it deals out the supremacy (to invoke fear, or perhaps awe...?) via the only ways it can. In such a way, it recognizes the newest technologies like genetic experimenting, gene splicing, computer chips, satellites surveillance, etc.

If you had a good long chat with Descartes he'd not tell you the aliens were conducting genetic experiments. He'd tell you there were animal spirits recording your every muscle movement sent by the aliens or something like that. But if you talked to Mendel, you'd get a whole other story, eh?

Also, the government would not hide their communication with the aliens from the public. And nowadays, if the government had any communication with aliens then you'd think some corporations would too. And corporations, especially the manufacturing industry would be fully automated right now, no?

And about this quote: "They were already so advances and intelligent by this stage that they were able to take their own DNA and through some extreme genetic engineering they were able to combine a tiny amount of it with the ape."

So you're saying that the aliens already live on Earth, right? This means they must be pretty dependent on oxygen to survive if they are going to be mobile, I'm sure. And where are these aliens today? They moved away from this planet? Where to? We haven't found anywhere with even a remote possibility we could colonize our whole civilization on. Underground, where we can't "see them"? That just seems pretty stupid. Why would a superior civilization genetically modify another species and watch them ever so slowly evolve (for who knows how long), take over the land (the Earth) in which the aliens are forced to live on and not do anything about their own seeming demise. Did they invent an easy method of making oxygen? I doubt in this scenario for sure. You stipulated these aliens doing genetic engineering on us. So you can only measure their technological capacity to move away (altruistically?:poke-eye:) from Earth to keep us unknowing of them by the gap in which genetic engineering becomes obsolete. Is this long enough? I doubt it.

I know I'm being very 'critical', but to me, this is all just some emotional frenzy. I mean, in the introspective sense, the prospect of aliens can be a lot like God. They're unfalsifiable.

Let's see some real evidence.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 05:51 pm
@GHOST phil,
Just because people believe aliens live on earth does not mean that they actually do. The U.S. government is totally incompetent at most it tries to do, so to think they could keep the infiltration of aliens into the population a secret is ridiculous.
 
Joe
 
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 10:06 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
Just because people believe aliens live on earth does not mean that they actually do. The U.S. government is totally incompetent at most it tries to do, so to think they could keep the infiltration of aliens into the population a secret is ridiculous.


Its all hear say. There are government whistle blowers. It all depends on what credibility you give the person. Ive been into this field for a short while, but Ive been sure to rely on the strictest information coming from honorable people who work or worked in the government. I guess all I can say is how do you prove someone is lying or not. Lots of research and conjecture. Even then its all about that leap of faith. I dont like the idea either. But I cant repress gut feelings and intuition, because they do exist in me and come naturally.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Tue 20 Jan, 2009 11:57 pm
@Joe,
Joe wrote:
Its all hear say. There are government whistle blowers. It all depends on what credibility you give the person. Ive been into this field for a short while, but Ive been sure to rely on the strictest information coming from honorable people who work or worked in the government. I guess all I can say is how do you prove someone is lying or not. Lots of research and conjecture. Even then its all about that leap of faith. I dont like the idea either. But I cant repress gut feelings and intuition, because they do exist in me and come naturally.


What you are describing is the gut feeling associated with truthiness. As Steven Colbert said, "Truthiness is what you want the facts to be, as opposed to what the facts are. What feels like the right answer as opposed to what reality will support." Truthiness is the reality that is intuitively known without regard to liberal ideals such as reason and logic. It is the truth that is felt deep down, in the gut.

In my younger years, I fully bought into many conspiracy theories, but as I began to sharpen my reason and logic skills I began to see that people were connecting ideas where there were no connections to be made. Have you ever considered that these "government whistleblowers" were paid by the government to spread conspiracy theories in order to hide what was actually going on?
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 02:40 am
@Theaetetus,
Or that "government whistleblowers" should be pitied because all they really want is attention and community: both of which they can find in the conspiracy community.
 
Joe
 
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2009 02:55 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
What you are describing is the gut feeling associated with truthiness. As Steven Colbert said, "Truthiness is what you want the facts to be, as opposed to what the facts are. What feels like the right answer as opposed to what reality will support." Truthiness is the reality that is intuitively known without regard to liberal ideals such as reason and logic. It is the truth that is felt deep down, in the gut.

In my younger years, I fully bought into many conspiracy theories, but as I began to sharpen my reason and logic skills I began to see that people were connecting ideas where there were no connections to be made. Have you ever considered that these "government whistleblowers" were paid by the government to spread conspiracy theories in order to hide what was actually going on?


Everything you said is true. I'm not claiming anything but a healthy interest. As for your question, of course. I'm actually not just entertained by this stuff. I look at it with critical thinking. All I'm saying is that there are reasonable people who have reasonable explanations if you research things. Again this is my opinion. I'm not stating that my gut feelings are true. Merely that, when someone asks me if I think we're being visited by aliens and our government is trying to cover it up.... Thats an affirmative.

Live long and prosper
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 04:12 am
@Joe,
My personal logic and reasoning skills tell me, "truthiness" aside, that it's highly improbable that there are no other species in the universe with intelligence. Irrespective of how we act on this earth today, approximately 25 species of life will be gone tomorrow. It is predicted, based on the hundreds of thousands of species found in 2003 on, that there are nearly over a million species that we have not even discovered yet in marine environments alone. Estimates for total species undiscovered are astonishing. And this is just this planet, one small sphere of matter guided by nature, destroying and creating diversity.

Even if we don't believe in some of the delusions these conspiracists bring to the table, it seems unreasonable to not even consider other lifeforms out there, with the potential for being more intelligent than we. One blue and green ball out of trillions, and we think we're the leaders of the universe? To not extrapolate the logic we can see with our very own eyes within our world seems almost absurd to me. To me, it's not a question of whether other lifeforms exist, but when we will discover them.

As for the 'government' hiding them, I feel people don't really know what they even speak sometimes. Does anyone have any idea what this would entail? This would entail cooperation, with almost NO error, absolutely none. It would be so top secret that one, maybe two people could be exposed to the material, and would require the cooperation of every new lineage that is supposed to carry the information forward. stealthily. This is near impossible; If they had any hard evidence, it would be exposed by now, point blank.

Now, is this to say aliens have never been here, or have never interacted with any of the populous? Absolutely not, I haven't a clue, and there's no way to verify this, so it's practically irrelevant. What this boils down to is that if another lifeform has come here they haven't valued communication in the manner we do, or, if they have, we just cannot perceive it through our human consciousness.

I'm awaiting the day we do discover another intelligent lifeform, and I want to see the modesty injected into the billions of humans that consider themselves special.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 05:34 am
@Zetherin,
Those who make the extreme claims fog the issues, make the whole subject comical . There is something happening not everyone who claims abduction should be classified as insane nor the pilot with years of experience be discounted so readily.We can debate the most bizarre claims on other subjects without preconceived notions, why not Aliens ?
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 08:28 am
@GHOST phil,
I agree with Zetherin. To think that there are no other intelligent life forms in the universe is rather ridiculous if humans are here on earth. The Milky Way galaxy is so vast in its own right that it wouldn't surprise me if intelligent beings were in our own neighborhood of the universe. But the distance between them and us is so great that it would be highly improbable for them to visit without technology that we could not even begin to understand, and that is in our own galactic neighborhood.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 08:56 am
@Theaetetus,
When we consider modern science and the mirage we call existance, nothing should be discounted and everything explored . QM gives an insight into other dimensions why ignore the fact that what we see as fuzzy images vague dreams of abduction , could be other realms spilling in to ours with purpose .
 
Icon
 
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 09:00 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
I agree with Zetherin. To think that there are no other intelligent life forms in the universe is rather ridiculous if humans are here on earth. The Milky Way galaxy is so vast in its own right that it wouldn't surprise me if intelligent beings were in our own neighborhood of the universe. But the distance between them and us is so great that it would be highly improbable for them to visit without technology that we could not even begin to understand, and that is in our own galactic neighborhood.

Oddly enough, the tech isn't all that crazy. Think about it. Higgs Boson theory derives that gravity is created by the collission of w and z bosons. This creates a massless particle with a certain level of atomic pull called a graviton. A concentrated collection of gravitons produces a gravity well. With the proper calculations to distort other gravity wells in the path of a moving vehicle as well as the ability to push smaller particles of space debris to the side, you could create what I like to call a gravity sail. This would, if counter gravity was created for the beings inside, give a vessel the ability to accellerate beyond FTL speeds. Using gravity to counter the space-time interference that is created by the gravity sail would give them the ability to literally almost transpot instantaneously from one point of the univers to the other using gravity wells. Then you have the possibility of grav-ports creating tunnels in the fabric of space time creating a hawkings wormhole effect, allowing mass to travel from one point to another by folding the universe in on itself in two specific points.

All I am saying is that we have, as humans, already theorized this. Which means it is not unlikely that another intelligent race could have easily discovered and established it. Interestingly enough, being that the requirements for a life supporting planet are so similar to earth... I would wager the guess that these "intelligent beings" may even be so similar to humans that we may not be able to tell them from us.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 09:20 am
@Icon,
Icon wrote:
Oddly enough, the tech isn't all that crazy. Think about it. Higgs Boson theory derives that gravity is created by the collission of w and z bosons. This creates a massless particle with a certain level of atomic pull called a graviton. A concentrated collection of gravitons produces a gravity well. With the proper calculations to distort other gravity wells in the path of a moving vehicle as well as the ability to push smaller particles of space debris to the side, you could create what I like to call a gravity sail. This would, if counter gravity was created for the beings inside, give a vessel the ability to accellerate beyond FTL speeds. Using gravity to counter the space-time interference that is created by the gravity sail would give them the ability to literally almost transpot instantaneously from one point of the univers to the other using gravity wells. Then you have the possibility of grav-ports creating tunnels in the fabric of space time creating a hawkings wormhole effect, allowing mass to travel from one point to another by folding the universe in on itself in two specific points.

All I am saying is that we have, as humans, already theorized this. Which means it is not unlikely that another intelligent race could have easily discovered and established it. Interestingly enough, being that the requirements for a life supporting planet are so similar to earth... I would wager the guess that these "intelligent beings" may even be so similar to humans that we may not be able to tell them from us.


That is assuming that the theorizing is correct. The Higgs boson is predicted, but yet to be observed. The Large Hadron Collider is expected to prove or disprove its existence, but until that time particle physicists have proved to be little more than creative theorizers.

I am curious though, would other intelligent beings actually care about the same things that us humans do. Would they feel the need to alter their environments? Build civilizations? Try to understand the universe through scientific discovery? Try to explore their galactic neighborhood? Invent gun powder?
 
GHOST phil
 
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 09:29 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
The "whistle blowers" want nothing more than the truth to be free and as I have stated in my other threads, they only risk loosing their jobs, being ridiculed and mocked beyond belief. But back to the subject at hand, I have though a lot about it, and have refined and changed my theory a bit. It no longer involves the Aliens having any power over us:

Long ago, when Aliens first discovered Earth, they found that the most intelligent form of life was the primates. They were already so advances and intelligent by this stage that they were able to take their own DNA and through some extreme genetic engineering they were able to combine a tiny amount of it with the ape, essentially they took the ape, changed the body a little to their desires, and replaced or combined the brain a really dumbed down version of their brain. In doing so, they produced a more intelligent and self-aware ape, which was ultimately their goal, they didn't want to stand around hoping the apes become self-aware. I'm not sure if they bred the apes to help achieve the desired results, but it seems they would be so advanced in their genetic engineering techniques, that there would be no need at all for such methods. We were now infact, a genetic experiment created by these Aliens. They are very interested in the deeper things about us, such as our religious beliefs, how we react to certian situations as a newly developing civilization, our emotions, passion, compassion, love, hatred, fear etc. They have been, and still are abducting people to implant "microchips" that monitor our bodily functions and maybe even our brains and thoughts. They also perform genetic experiments on people, some are returned, some are not. They watched us create a society, they watched us advance and learn until in recent years, we were advanced enough for them to show themselves to the Government we had established. Since then, the Government, or secret compartments of the Government have been working with Aliens. They have built and established massive underground infastructure, and all this is kept secret from the masses. The only reason the Aliens operate with the Government is so they have somewhere to reside and study us easier, and in return they give the Government extremely advanced technology (not very advanced compared to what they have, low grade stuff really, but brilliant in the eyes of humans) such as free-energy and anti-gravity technology. The Government obviously doesn't release a lot of this technology through greed and power, and the Aliens let them do what they like, as they are only here to study us, but they have released some technology, and it accounts for our sudden technological boom. Our existance is nothing compared to their life span and the time their species have been in existance. They will wipe us out, or let us be wiped out, if we don't meet their standards in the required time, and I believe they have done so in the past. I believe the clock runs out on 2012, and this is why we have had a sudden and huge increase in UFO sightings recently. What they want from us is another question and I feel that question is a lot harder to answer.

Let me remind people, this is not a thread to argue Alien existance, if you want to do that, go to my other thread, located here: http://www.philosophyforum.com/forum/philosophy-forums/branches-philosophy/philosophy-science/3286-so-you-think-we-alone-infinite-universe.html
 
nameless
 
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 10:25 pm
@GHOST phil,
GHOST;44406 wrote:
Let me remind people, this is not a thread to argue Alien existance, if you want to do that, go to my other thread, located here:

And let me remind you that this is a philosophy site, a place where every offered pile of words/concepts are exposed to be examined beneath the harsh light of 'critical thought'. If your 'pile' is to be 'unavailable' to critical thought, it belongs elsewhere. Perhaps on a 'believers' site, or your own.
Philosophy is examination by critical thought of whatever it finds; whatever is posted here, for instance...
 
GHOST phil
 
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2009 11:27 pm
@nameless,
Yes, my theory is exposed to critical thinkers, but I think we can leave out the bit about Aliens actually existing, why have two threads discussing the exact same thing when the point of this thread is to give theories and examine those given, not to analyze the underlying factor that makes the theories possible, that's why I named it "Only for believers" so if you don't believe or want to argue the existance of Aliens, I will say this as nicely as possible: "Buzz off" (not directing that at anyone in particular). I really don't mind people who don't believe, having a go at this for what ever reason, but they may not go out of the bounds stated.

Moderator Edited BAD WORDS
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Sat 24 Jan, 2009 12:03 am
@GHOST phil,
GHOST wrote:
Yes, my theory is exposed to critical thinkers, but I think we can leave out the bit about Aliens actually existing, why have two threads discussing the exact same thing when the point of this thread is to give theories and examine those given, not to analyze the underlying factor that makes the theories possible, that's why I named it "Only for believers" so if you don't believe or want to argue the existance of Aliens, I will say this as nicely as possible: "Buzz off" (not directing that at anyone in particular). I really don't mind people who don't believe, having a go at this for what ever reason, but they may not go out of the bounds stated.


I understand where you're coming from, but you must understand that you cannot 'shield' people from discussion of critical thought in a forum designated to critical thought. Very rarely will you ever see "Only for..." in the title of threads here, as the premise, the intent, of the forum in the first place is to seek differing ideas.

And just to clarify, even if I did decide to be a believer someday, your explanation has absolutely no logical backing whatsoever; it's as if you utterly made it up. You didn't even make an effort to support your claims in the least. You expect people to ignore this, believe your imaginative story, and then relay theories to support it? It's almost as if you created this thread in an effort to prove that aliens exist since you haven't even taken the trouble of attempting to prove your own theory. That seems almost insane to me, and it is most definitely not how this forum operates.

Oh, and sorry bud, no one "Buzzes Off" here.

Mod Edit - Removed BAD WORDS - Thank you Zeth for above!
 
 

 
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