is time infinite?

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manored
 
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 01:34 pm
@xris,
My home language is indeed portuguese.

xris wrote:
Is that fell tree or feel free...Did you hear that tree fall..do i feel free to tell you? not you...
Analize the context.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 03:04 pm
@manored,
manored wrote:
My home language is indeed portuguese.

Analize the context.
Wot fell free:perplexed:
 
manored
 
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2009 07:34 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
Wot fell free:perplexed:

Perhaps you dont know the meaning of "feel free": to fell free is to fell there is no problem in doing something. So if I tell you you can feel free to do X thing, that means I wont mind at all if you do X thing.
 
xris
 
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 06:23 am
@manored,
manored wrote:
Perhaps you dont know the meaning of "feel free": to fell free is to fell there is no problem in doing something. So if I tell you you can feel free to do X thing, that means I wont mind at all if you do X thing.
YE RIGHT...feel free to fell porkies..
 
bundo
 
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 05:55 pm
@meridius,
time is a way to measure thing's and keep things in tact
 
Fido
 
Reply Sun 4 Jan, 2009 08:13 pm
@meridius,
We do not measure things... We measure ourselves with time; specifically, our lives, which are time.
 
l0ck
 
Reply Mon 5 Jan, 2009 02:34 am
@Fido,
Quote:
Since I think that most of us here are materialists, not idealists, and we can all appreciate that Occam's Razor generally holds true, our best bet is to treat my clock as an object with an existence outside of my own. Anything else leads to convoluted theories that would take too much time to work out and provide no more enlightenment than our current theory.


The characteristics of all mass and all of its qualities are perceived in the mind.
When we measure mass, we do not measure its qualities. The qualities of that energy are formed in our minds. Our 'current view' provides enough evidence for anyone to understand that energy, being homogeneous, only has form in the mind. If you believe that you are separate from the environment, and the environment exists without you simply because it appears that way and therefore its safe to assume that true, then I am very interested on how you apply occam's razor to your dreams. Seeing as how, there is no accurate way to distinguish reality from a dream, obviously this is a dream. Do you apply that concept to your dreams and find truth that dreams are separate from reality simply because you find yourself re-experiencing the process of waking up? But you also re-experience the process of dreaming.. The result is a bad tool to explain existence. So I can personally see how occams razor can make a convoluted and twisted explanation of reality. Because we cannot use finite tools to measure infinite qualities of existence or we end up with confusing results every time.. That is, we end up with 1.
Because when we take any finite number, and try to mathematically apply it to infinity, as you may know already, we end up with 1.
321423 multiplied by infinity still equals 1.. And always will..

Quote:
universe, as anybody these days should know, is entropic overall.

The universe can be viewed as a neg-entropic obstacle. It is organized and compressed and condensed energy that is held together through cohesion, it seeks to randomize into a chaotic state but its trapped. Entropy randomizes energy. As entropy increases, cohesion decreases.

To view time as a whole, you have to view everything as a whole. As all things are apart of a infinite set - the absolute. The absolute is an all-inclusive, coherent, integrated whole, of infinite and finite magnitudes. In finite magnitude, the whole appears to be separated into parts, each of which appears to be less than the whole. In infinite magnitude, the whole is equal to each part and each part is equal to the whole and to every other part.

What is infinity? Infinity is that which cannot be measured, but compared. Love is infinite, tolerance is infinite. Infinite qualities of existence have no way of being expressed finitely because they are infinite, thus there are no finite tools we can ever use to explain them or measure them, they are infinite qualities, and the mind is a transfinite device that takes finite expressions of mass from a finite magnitude, and transforms them into infinite thoughts of the mind and of infinite magnitude. It is in our minds that infinite qualities can blossom and come to exist in our realities.

The perception of separation, is a perception developed in the mind. All things are apart of the infinite set, which is a whole, which means it is not separated. Empirical evidence can't be the tool you use realize this. When you use empirical evidence to help convince yourself that a piece of existence is true, you use a piece of something to prove another piece of the same thing exists, thus proving that you didn't really prove anything. But it sure does feel that way, like we really accomplished something, which is I guess the whole point.. But in any case, Intuition is what allows us to arrive at our truths and our beliefs, not empirical evidence. When we allow empirical evidence to completely control our intuition, we essentially limit ourselves, because we are limiting ourselves to one perspective. This is why from an absolute perspective, all things are real things. An absolute perspective includes multiple perspectives, not just one, it doesn't depend purely on formal logic.

We naturally find it suitable to accept things for the way they are, and so we tend to believe we are separate from everything else. But as time goes on, and entropy increases, the species will begin to understand all things are apart of one thing, and will adapt towards more chaotic social behaviors as a result. The quality of energy expresses in time-space, in finite form. But Time-space expressions are sub-sets of the all-inclusive set ... that is, of the Absolute. All things are apart of one thing but only appear to be separated. This is why we are what we are, this is why we see the environment from a separated finite magnitude, so we can find singularity. We create neg-entropic obstacles to create conflict because with conflict comes an increase of quality being released from mass and absorbed into our minds.

Entropy naturally randomizes energy into a singular state, it's only a matter of time before everyone becomes aware of that and thus starts incorporating entropy into their lives instead of focusing on resisting it, because it is very real. We have now accumulated enough data, to successfully predict, that one day, in order to survive, man must incorporate entropy into his life, and not continue resisting it.
Governments and other negentropic forces will never adapt to accepting entropic concepts, no matter how much entropy visibly and apparently alters the environment around us and no matter how aware of entropy we become. Their attempts to hide other view-points from the societies they control will grow because for a negentropic force to accept entropy is essentially a negentropic force accepting the destruction of itself. But we have also accumulated enough data to successfully predict, that technological advancements occur at an ever increasing rate, the speed at which they occur increases exponentially, so we can now predict, that technology will become a threat to all negentropic forces in the very near future. For example, one day, man will invent one single machine that will forever change his outlook on the environment. A single machine that can assemble and dissassemble the enviroment on an atomic level and recreate it as man wishes. A machine that can take a scoop of sand, and break it apart, and reassemble its atoms into complex chains of water molecules. A single machine that only has to be invented once, because it can even make copies of itself after its invented only once. This invention, as with all future inventions, will become a huge threat to all negentropic forces. It will become to goal of all negentropic force to attempt to slow entropy by all means possible. But slowing entropy only increases it somewhere else, and its only a matter of time before all is consumed in a ever-increasing vortex of chaos.

Entropy is a result of the growth of the over-all increase of the absolute's awareness of itself. Even trying to prevent entropy still increases entropy somewhere else. It is safe to assume, that in the future during this conflict, that single paradigmatic views will wax and that incorporate multi-viewpoints will wane in the attempts to slow awareness, simply because, the negentropic forces are doing all they can to prevent people from becoming completely and absolutely aware, because absolute awareness ultimately destroys negentropia. Thus today's current view, which is a view that refuses to accept other views to explain existence, its a type of obsticle for all of us to overcome. And we will.

Man is a monadic being, a living, sensing extension of the absolute whole.
Man is a finite representation of the absolute in its unaware form.
Man views the absolute set in a separated, finite form, and absorbs the environment's qualities from en-massed energy which makes him more aware of his absolute nature. The absolute seeks to know itself by a means to an end, and the only way it can become aware of itself, is by first being unaware of itself. The laws of the mind are true in the absolute's case as well as our case. The mind is transfinite and gets to experience and understand infinite qualities just as the absolute does.

The absorption rate is increasing, exponentially.. This is why in the past 150 years man has seen most of its technological advancements. We are moving exponentially faster towards singularity. De-massing states are increasing exponentially. Entropy is increasing exponentially. The environment is decaying at a speed that is exponentially increasing, because we are absorbing qualities faster and faster, releasing them from mass faster and faster, and then using those qualities to rebuild our environment the way we want faster and faster, thus the speed of technological advancement increases exponentially.

When we sense something, and absorb its qualities, we naturally decay that mass and increase entropy. It can be seen as the need dissipating, and as such, the need for it's physical existence is dissipating.

All things exist because we need them to exist. When a need is created, a will is created, and where there is a will, there is a way. When there is no longer a need, there is no longer a need for existence. Where there is no light, there is no evolution of a species with eyes to perceive light. Things happen, because they need to happen. All things happen because they need to happen, that's what 'happening' is, a need being fulfilled. Even when its horrible things we all hate to think about. The Absolute must express itself in every possible variation of expression, including expressions of imperfection, voiding and aberration. This is how it becomes completely aware of itself. This is why finite forms exist. This is all a state of unawareness.
 
StupidBoy phil
 
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 01:13 pm
@l0ck,
l0ck wrote:
The characteristics of all mass and all of its qualities are perceived in the mind.
When we measure mass, we do not measure its qualities. The qualities of that energy are formed in our minds. Our 'current view' provides enough evidence for anyone to understand that energy, being homogeneous, only has form in the mind. If you believe that you are separate from the environment, and the environment exists without you simply because it appears that way and therefore its safe to assume that true, then I am very interested on how you apply occam's razor to your dreams. Seeing as how, there is no accurate way to distinguish reality from a dream, obviously this is a dream. Do you apply that concept to your dreams and find truth that dreams are separate from reality simply because you find yourself re-experiencing the process of waking up? But you also re-experience the process of dreaming.. The result is a bad tool to explain existence. So I can personally see how occams razor can make a convoluted and twisted explanation of reality. Because we cannot use finite tools to measure infinite qualities of existence or we end up with confusing results every time.. That is, we end up with 1.
Because when we take any finite number, and try to mathematically apply it to infinity, as you may know already, we end up with 1.
321423 multiplied by infinity still equals 1.. And always will..


I'm at work, and so I don't have time to treat with this whole post (as it is rather long) but I thought I'd take a moment out to question this little bit. 321423*infinity= infinity. In fact, as far as I'm aware, there is one mathematical process that would tie infinity to anything other than itself, negative infinity, or 0; that's infinity^0. Really, it's irrelevant though, because infinity isn't a number, it's a concept. By definition, it cannot be a number. Any number can be made bigger simply by adding 1. X+1 > X. Infinity cannot be made larger. Infinity+1=Infinity.

Of course we cannot measure infinity itself (would be awful tough to measure a concept), but measuring qualities of infinite things using finite methods is perfectly normal. For instance, I can take a line segment of a Cantor Set and measure it. I can measure the entire set, or any given segment of the set, at any point along the series.

As to my dreams, I haven't given much thought to dreamstate vs. consciousness simply because I think consciousness is illusory anyway. However, I would say that applying Occam's Razor to my dreams is what would lead me to believe that they're dreams in the first place. Since dream stimuli does not affect my waking life (indeed, I do not perceive any dream stimuli while awake) but waking stimuli can affect my dreams, the simplest explanation is that the former is an illusion and the latter is real. I can even be consciously aware that I am dreaming and of waking or "real" stimuli affecting me in my sleep, specifically between REM and stage 1 NREM sleep. I imagine we could have an entire topic on the subject of wake state vs. dream state but it's pretty off topic for here. Let's just agree that Occam's Razor is a respected tool of thinking for a reason.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 01:43 pm
@StupidBoy phil,
Can anyone deny that infinity is less than a second away..why do those who cant perceive infinity try measuring it?
 
Fido
 
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 02:04 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
Can anyone deny that infinity is less than a second away..why do those who cant perceive infinity try measuring it?

I used to have an infinity clock, but if slid off the table like a puddle of mercury and into a crack in the floor..
 
manored
 
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 07:55 pm
@xris,
xris wrote:
Can anyone deny that infinity is less than a second away..why do those who cant perceive infinity try measuring it?
Explain the expression "infinity is less than a second away" please, I think nobody here managed to understand what you mean with that yet Smile
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 03:41 am
@manored,
manored wrote:
Explain the expression "infinity is less than a second away" please, I think nobody here managed to understand what you mean with that yet Smile
Well as idid not get any replies except yours.:perplexed:..how far is it away then ?
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 06:26 am
@xris,
xris wrote:
Well as idid not get any replies except yours.:perplexed:..how far is it away then ?

It does not matter...It is all behind us...
 
schloopfeng
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 06:49 am
@meridius,
:shocked: Blimey ... i feel sorry for this bloke trying to write his paper ..... I would be tempted to just title the piece " How could I fit an infinite subject in an un-infinite supply of paper?"
Tea anyone?
TTFN
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 07:04 am
@schloopfeng,
Infinities are the proper subject of theology rather than philosophy...Faith is faith...
 
Aedes
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 08:13 am
@Fido,
Fido;41019 wrote:
Infinities are the proper subject of theology rather than philosophy...Faith is faith...
Infinities are a major embedded assumption within probability, statistics, and calculus -- I think it can be pertinent to many fields depending on the nature of the conversation.
 
Fido
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 09:58 am
@Aedes,
Aedes wrote:
Infinities are a major embedded assumption within probability, statistics, and calculus -- I think it can be pertinent to many fields depending on the nature of the conversation.

Are you making a utilitarian argument; that infinity should be accepted because it is useful??? So what??? Isn't God useful???
 
Aedes
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 11:29 am
@Fido,
Fido, read my post again without the exegesis.

I'm not making a generalizable argument about things other than infinity, and I'm not making a generalizable argument about utilitarianism.

All I'm doing is contradicting your statement that infinity should be left to theology. That's it.
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:09 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:
It does not matter...It is all behind us...
and if i live another million years it still less than a second away...we will never have infinity only the illusion..
 
MJA
 
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 01:36 pm
@meridius,
Time as is all measure is nothing but uncertainty and division.
Where as the universe is certainly infinite until One know its extent or bounds.
And as time goes by mankind will find he has come full circle, back to where he began.
Back to a time before time, a time when all was is most certainly and infinitely undivided or One.

=
MJA
 
 

 
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