Muslims - the Day of Islam and another 911

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Dave Allen
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 08:58 am
@xris,
xris;91264 wrote:
well when you consider they bare the brunt of the bombings and the vast majority of the insurgents are sunni, you can understand my statement.

I understand that you're generalising, yes.
 
Pangloss
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 09:36 am
@xris,
xris;91264 wrote:
well when you consider they bare the brunt of the bombings and the vast majority of the insurgents are sunni, you can understand my statement. Egyptians , Syrians or Sudanese make up the majority and the 50% of the suicide bombers are saudis.


Where in the world did you get this 'info'? Please cite your sources when you start throwing around statistics like these.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 09:45 am
@Pangloss,
Pangloss;91272 wrote:
Where in the world did you get this 'info'? Please cite your sources when you start throwing around statistics like these.
Just try a few times to search for insurgents in Iraq. Or read the link I posted earlier about suicide bombers. If you kept up to speed on Afghanistan and the Pakistan insurgent position, you would not need to ask. The Americans found list of insurgents and their relative nationalities. The other link on Shia and Sunni difference, also gives references. If you cant find them let me know.
 
ahmedjbh
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 11:44 am
@Justin,
Xris,

Please my friend, lets stop and have a think.

You have raised many many points, and each time you make a point, someone comments on your point, and then instead of commenting back ON THE SAME ISSUE, you move on to a separate point.

This causes several problems. Firstly it is very frustrating to all reading, as their is never an conclusion or progress, perhaps your initial statement was correct? and just required further clarification, or perhaps it was completely wrong. The reader will never know becuase the topic has moved on.

The second problem is, the many interesting points you raise are being drowned out by their sheer volume.

I will give you one example, you mentioned how you understand that sunnis and shias dont consider each other muslims. Then I gave you two links which shows all the major scholars of BOTH schools of thought CONFIRMING that they are both muslim.

When I posted these clear facts to you, instead of making comment, you choose to ignore it, and instead the conversation moved on to a different topic.

Then you ask me, why I do not reply to your posts? Can you see how frustrating it is?

It is not my job to post here, Im here for fun, its not fun to continually correct factual errors in a never ending chain like fashion.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 12:16 pm
@Justin,
xris you have been asked you politely dear friend, to tone it down a bit, I know you're in your 80's but go for a jog or something and work it off, channel it and keep focused. I wont ask you again, please!
Thanks.

---------- Post added 09-18-2009 at 01:17 PM ----------

How else are you going to make your points clear if you become too hot. Lets have a heated debate!
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 12:22 pm
@ahmedjbh,
ahmedjbh;91318 wrote:
Xris,

Please my friend, lets stop and have a think.

You have raised many many points, and each time you make a point, someone comments on your point, and then instead of commenting back ON THE SAME ISSUE, you move on to a separate point.

This causes several problems. Firstly it is very frustrating to all reading, as their is never an conclusion or progress, perhaps your initial statement was correct? and just required further clarification, or perhaps it was completely wrong. The reader will never know becuase the topic has moved on.

The second problem is, the many interesting points you raise are being drowned out by their sheer volume.

I will give you one example, you mentioned how you understand that sunnis and shias dont consider each other muslims. Then I gave you two links which shows all the major scholars of BOTH schools of thought CONFIRMING that they are both muslim.

When I posted these clear facts to you, instead of making comment, you choose to ignore it, and instead the conversation moved on to a different topic.

Then you ask me, why I do not reply to your posts? Can you see how frustrating it is?

It is not my job to post here, Im here for fun, its not fun to continually correct factual errors in a never ending chain like fashion.
You are good , i must admit. You made the same claims about this very subject, this is why I reintroduced this subject. What do you want to debate in detail and not move on. What factual errors have you actualy pointed out to me on this subject. You cant cry wolf again and again. Are you going to dispute the wickie or not.

---------- Post added 09-18-2009 at 01:41 PM ----------

Caroline;91332 wrote:
xris you have been asked you politely dear friend, to tone it down a bit, I know you're in your 80's but go for a jog or something and work it off, channel it and keep focused. I wont ask you again, please!
Thanks.

---------- Post added 09-18-2009 at 01:17 PM ----------

How else are you going to make your points clear if you become too hot. Lets have a heated debate!
Im not in my eighties, one factual error and i dont intend toning my posts down. If you can point to my errors, then do so, but dont make sweeping statements. You are being persuaded by woeful expressions. I have not expressed my self in any derogatory manner to any one and if i have, point it out. This forum has a serious problem and it aint me. I dont like open expressions of uncalled for rebuke, as a moderator talk to me privately if you have a problem and dont abuse our friendship. This may well be my last post if this is not settled by reason. I say again , i have not abused or made untrue statements, called any one names who have not called me so. Certain moderators abuse their position and censor unfairly. Resolves this fairly, not just for me but for this forum.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 12:43 pm
@Justin,
I think what it needs Xris is a closer look at the Koran, didn't I mention this before?
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 12:51 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline;91350 wrote:
I think what it needs Xris is a closer look at the Koran, didn't I mention this before?
Well you take a very close look and report back to me.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 12:58 pm
@Justin,
I thought maybe taking a closer look at it on the forum.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 01:12 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline;91364 wrote:
I thought maybe taking a closer look at it on the forum.
What and see a sanitized version for human consumption.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 01:24 pm
@Justin,
i don't know what you mean, i don't the Koran at all.
 
Pangloss
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 01:28 pm
@Justin,
I'm wondering how much longer the moderators will allow the stereotyping of Muslims to continue here in this thread...these religion forums are a problem just as I thought they would be, and standards of a reasonable debate should be enforced.

The Quran states,

Quote:
"That whoever kills a single soul for other than a soul(killed) or for corruption on the earth, it is as though he had killed all of humanity together, and whoever saves the life of a single soul, It is as though he had saved the life of all humanity together..."
-Surah al Ma'ida ayah 32

Most muslims out there, like most christians, most hindis, and most HUMANS just want to live peacefully. The type of propaganda, fear mongering, and stereotyping that is going on in this thread is exactly what leads to more division between religious and ethnic groups, resulting eventually in violent conflicts. It is a lack of understanding...ignorance...that causes our anger and hate. I'd hope that a philosophy forum can stamp out ignorance before it grows out of control.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 01:31 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline;91388 wrote:
i don't know what you mean, i don't the Koran at all.
So you dont know the Koran, is that an excuse or an apology. Whats your point Caroline im bemused, i am a frail little old man and it takes a while to take things in, but a good run might help the brain cells.

---------- Post added 09-18-2009 at 02:33 PM ----------

Pangloss;91394 wrote:
I'm wondering how much longer the moderators will allow the stereotyping of Muslims to continue here in this thread...these religion forums are a problem just as I thought they would be, and standards of a reasonable debate should be enforced.

The Quran states,



-Surah al Ma'ida ayah 32

Most muslims out there, just like most christians, most hindis, and most of all HUMANS just want to live peacefully. The type of propaganda, fear mongering, and stereotyping that is going on in this thread is exactly what leads to more division between religious and ethnic groups, resulting eventually in violent conflicts. It is a lack of understanding...ignorance...that causes our anger and hate. I'd hope that a philosophy forum can stamp out ignorance before it grows out of control.
What ignorance, can you point to any?
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 01:53 pm
@Justin,
I don't know what my point is xris, you've been fighting amongst yourselves like you always have been, I just thought it was time for a change, it would be nice, please.
Thanks.
 
Icon
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 01:59 pm
@Justin,
Islam, Muslims, are not the problem. The problem is ignorance. Especially on the part of those outside of the "line of fire" so to speak. What we are looking at is a the start of another religious war. Unfortunately, this war is going to be fought with weapons of the 21st century.

But feeding this ignorance isn't going to help

I have many muslim friends who are disgusted at what was done in the name if Islam. We MUST be intelligent enough to determine the line which separates Islam from Extremists using religion as a weapon.
 
Pangloss
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 02:09 pm
@xris,
xris;91399 wrote:

What ignorance, can you point to any?


No need to play dumb. Every time a topic comes up relating to Islam, you immediately show up with a clear agenda. Most of your posts in this thread were designed to, at least imply, that Islam/Muslims is/are, 1) inherently violent or 2) indifferent to the violence perpetrated by certain violent extremists who happen to be muslims.

You present no evidence from the Koran to show that the teachings of Muhammad themselves promote violence. You present no evidence from any reasonable sample of Muslims to show that they do not care about violence that is perpetrated in the name of Islam. Your posts are riddled with generalizations like "muslims are...", "muslims say..", "muslims think...".

Several times, you stated that you became convinced of your beliefs by visiting 'a muslim forum', as if that's a reliable thing to base your beliefs on. Most of the muslim world does not even speak your language, you do not live there, and you do not talk to the people, so how can you begin to think that one internet forum is legitimate to use for your beliefs regarding muslims? I was actually curious about your claim, and browsed through several muslim forums, and found no anger or violent tendencies whatsoever. But I'm not going to therefore claim that, due to my experience browsing a few forums, no muslims are violent.

You need to examine your beliefs and figure out why YOU are so angry at religions and religious people in general. If you've got a big problem with someone or something, it usually lies within you and not the other.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 02:29 pm
@Pangloss,
Pangloss;91436 wrote:
No need to play dumb. Every time a topic comes up relating to Islam, you immediately show up with a clear agenda. Most of your posts in this thread were designed to, at least imply, that Islam/Muslims is/are, 1) inherently violent or 2) indifferent to the violence perpetrated by certain violent extremists who happen to be muslims.

You present no evidence from the Koran to show that the teachings of Muhammad themselves promote violence. You present no evidence from any reasonable sample of Muslims to show that they do not care about violence that is perpetrated in the name of Islam. Your posts are riddled with generalizations like "muslims are...", "muslims say..", "muslims think...".

Several times, you stated that you became convinced of your beliefs by visiting 'a muslim forum', as if that's a reliable thing to base your beliefs on. Most of the muslim world does not even speak your language, you do not live there, and you do not talk to the people, so how can you begin to think that one internet forum is legitimate to use for your beliefs regarding muslims? I was actually curious about your claim, and browsed through several muslim forums, and found no anger or violent tendencies whatsoever. But I'm not going to therefore claim that, due to my experience browsing a few forums, no muslims are violent.

You need to examine your beliefs and figure out why YOU are so angry at religions and religious people in general. If you've got a big problem with someone or something, it usually lies within you and not the other.
If you browse certain ones they exclude the pertinent threads to those who are not members. Now apart from your rhetoric be more pointed in your criticism of my posts and point out the errors or the exaggerations. I have examined religions and they have more to answer to than any anger I might express. I have noticed when the RC church was severely criticised by me, only the two crew members reacted to my posts. How many fundamentalists have invaded this forum with fear and retribution , I stand accused of bigotry now prove it.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 02:29 pm
@Justin,
I think every ones views can be clouded especially in this climate, I think it's time to clear the air and let the dust settle. Im closing this thread if you do not stop barking at each other for this getting us nowhere. Im not watching you fight again, ive done all I can so please stop.
Thanks.
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 02:33 pm
@Caroline,
Caroline;91423 wrote:
I don't know what my point is xris, you've been fighting amongst yourselves like you always have been, I just thought it was time for a change, it would be nice, please.
Thanks.
If its a fight you see then i cant help your perspective and it would serve us more if you included the other protagonists in the rebuke.
 
Pangloss
 
Reply Fri 18 Sep, 2009 02:35 pm
@xris,
xris;91454 wrote:
Now apart from your rhetoric be more pointed in your criticism of my posts and point out the errors or the exaggerations. I have examined religions and they have more to answer to than any anger I might express. I have noticed when the RC church was severely criticised by me, only the two crew members reacted to my posts. How many fundamentalists have invaded this forum with fear and retribution , I stand accused of bigotry now prove it.


What fundamentalists have invaded the forum with fear and retribution? I'm not going to waste my time proving anything to you, because it is clear that you are unwilling to see your own errors. As for anybody else, they can simply read through all of your posts made on this thread and others concerning Islam, if they need to verify my claims about your posts. Your posts all speak for themselves.
 
 

 
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