What creates wisdom?

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jeeprs
 
Reply Fri 5 Feb, 2010 07:34 pm
@Karpowich,
Hey Reconstructo - do a google search on W Teed Rockwell Neither Brain nor Ghost. I think it is on MIT Press. A Western non-dualist. I would buy this book but am still slowly digesting the last book order I got, like an anaconda having just eaten a tapir...
 
Khethil
 
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2010 10:00 am
@Karpowich,
The definition given of wisdom, I think, gives the most complete picture of what_it_is; where experience, knowledge and good judgment meet.[INDENT] Remember, knowledge isn't only attainable through study and academia. Everything from hearsay, observation and facts related from others can also qualify as bits of knowledge about something.

Experience is crucial; and for almost no subject or issue can one be called "wise" on it without some experience on the matter at hand. Without experience, the info-bits have no context, no setting and no real impact on the individual mind; they're just floating around spark-notes.

Good judgement means that conclusions or perspective has been reached in the mind, and assimilated through the experience and knowledge components - that the lesson has been learned and decisions can be made with confidence upon a firm mental foundation.
[/INDENT]So there is no neuron structure that can, on its own, breed wisdom. Although I agree that linkages between mental elements (e.g., the info bits associated with the experiences) are necessary. This might predispose someone moreso to the accumulation of wisdom, but it wouldn't guarantee anything. The conscious mind has to be able to put all these elements together and draw conclusions on their own, in order for anything resembling wisdom to appear.

No, I don't think there are any physiological factors that would be necessarily 'different' for those that are wise. There are; I believe, certain behavioral attributes that increase the likelyhood that knowledge and experience might result in 'being wise'; and for each of these there could be brain-based predispositions (but yea, that's a stretch):

  • The ability to reflect; many live their lives in a "perspectiveless-void" wherein their lives are simply lived; never reflected upon


  • Humility: Without which no lessons can be learned, at all - ever


  • Perspective: Info and Experience don't often correlate on their own; the connection between the ramifications of this bit of knowledge and that experience don't often get made - connection failed; try again later.


  • A Private Desire ... to really *understand*, minus all the ego-baggage that so often plagues homo sapiens. For many, the lack of this desire might not even be ego-based. My lovely wife, for example, simply often hasn't much interest in the contextualizations of our experiences into either a fact-based or philosophically-based framework (example).

Karpowich;122677 wrote:
In short, is it possible to genetically alter a person's physical brain structure to give them a greater capacity for wisdom?


No. You might be able to genetically predispose someone to have all the mental "tools" that could help_make_possible the eventual thirst for and attainment of information, experience and connections. But this just doles out the "tools", the experiences and personality attributes that work those tools might still be absent.

Good post, thanks.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sat 6 Feb, 2010 09:26 pm
@Karpowich,
What creates the word "Wisdom?" Considering words as tools, what was "Wisdom" used for?

I assume a person got the right mix of thought and feeling going on and wanted to share it. He/she does what we all must do when we hope to share emotions be means of words. He/she used figurative language, and put their hope in trope. To be wise is to see, a metaphor for knowing. It seems that most of our figurative language is visual, by the way. Here's my source:

wise (adj.) http://www.etymonline.com/graphics/dictionary.gifO.E. wis, from P.Gmc. *wisaz (cf. O.S., O.Fris. wis, O.N. viss, Du. wijs, Ger. weise "wise"), from pp. adj. *wittos of PIE base *woid-/*weid-/*wid- "to see," hence "to know" (see vision). Slang meaning "aware, cunning" first attested 1896. Related to the source of O.E. witan "to know, wit." [INDENT]"A wise man has no extensive knowledge; He who has extensive knowledge is not a wise man." [Lao-tzu, "Tao te Ching," c.550 B.C.E.] [/INDENT] Wise guy is attested from 1896, Amer.Eng.; wisecrack is from 1924. Wisenheimer, with mock Ger. or Yiddish surname suffix, first recorded 1904.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 12:36 am
@Karpowich,
I think the Sanskrit words for wisdom are quite illuminating: jnana (note similarity to 'gnosis') and the Buddhist Prajna (very close to 'prognosis'.)

In both cases, related to 'truths only perceivable by the wise'. This is something lost to Western culture. We don't have wisdom so much as specialists.
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 7 Feb, 2010 05:52 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;125637 wrote:
I think the Sanskrit words for wisdom are quite illuminating: jnana (note similarity to 'gnosis') and the Buddhist Prajna (very close to 'prognosis'.)

In both cases, related to 'truths only perceivable by the wise'. This is something lost to Western culture. We don't have wisdom so much as specialists.


Perhaps there is a connect between the Enlightenment, democracy, and scientism. Only obvious sensual truths are real. The real is equated with the objective which is equated with the senses of the consensus.

"We want to see a miracle! We don't want parables."

The twist is that existence itself is miracle enough for anyone who can see it with clean glasses. (How I wish my glasses would stay clean!)
 
Fido
 
Reply Mon 8 Feb, 2010 06:17 am
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;125918 wrote:
Perhaps there is a connect between the Enlightenment, democracy, and scientism. Only obvious sensual truths are real. The real is equated with the objective which is equated with the senses of the consensus.

"We want to see a miracle! We don't want parables."

The twist is that existence itself is miracle enough for anyone who can see it with clean glasses. (How I wish my glasses would stay clean!)

We cannot see existence, and few of us can sense reality, and fewer still can know truth on any level....We presume truth is a part of reality, that the laws of nature can be known; but the fact is that we impose these laws upon nature, and are in that fashion blinded to reality...Reality in its totality is existence which will forever remain an infinite...So what can we know??? We must know to live, and life is our proof of our limited understanding of truth...What else have we, but enough, we hope...
 
groundedspirit
 
Reply Sun 21 Feb, 2010 11:33 am
@Karpowich,
It is my understanding that "wisdom" is a combination of knowledge, experience & intellect.

A truly wise person has a bank of knowledge, the experience in applying it in various ways, and the intellect to know that his/her knowledge & experience are limited and need to be constantly stretched.

GS
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Sun 21 Feb, 2010 09:19 pm
@groundedspirit,
groundedspirit;130753 wrote:
It is my understanding that "wisdom" is a combination of knowledge, experience & intellect.

A truly wise person has a bank of knowledge, the experience in applying it in various ways, and the intellect to know that his/her knowledge & experience are limited and need to be constantly stretched.

GS


I think this is a likable understanding of the term. I agree. The term also has religious/mystical/esoteric uses. I like these uses as well.

SophiaGreek for "wisdom") is a central term in Hellenistic philosophy and religion, Platonism, Gnosticism, Orthodox Christianity, Esoteric Christianity, as well as Christian mysticism. Sophiology is a philosophical concept regarding wisdom, as well as a theological concept regarding the wisdom of God.
 
HexHammer
 
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 04:51 am
@Karpowich,
Karpowich;122677 wrote:
Wisdom is quite different from knowledge. Wisdom is defined as "the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment; the quality of being wise." You could know all the useless facts in the world, but if you don't know how to manipulate those facts into something that's beneficial to the situations you are thrust into in life, then you are most definitely lacking wisdom. My question is this:
[INDENT]
  • If knowledge is attainable through study and academia, then how is wisdom attained? If it is attained through exact experience, then would two people who go through the exact same experiences be able to formulate the same answer to their problems? Perhaps wisdom is something that is simply incomprehensible to some? Perhaps some people lack the correct neuron structure to be able to link different thoughts in a productive manner. If this last hypothesis is so, what is different about the brain of those who are seemingly wise, and is it something that can be isolated and eventually artificially induced/genetically replicated. In short, is it possible to genetically alter a person's physical brain structure to give them a greater capacity for wisdom?

[/INDENT]
Trial and error?
 
north
 
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 05:12 pm
@HexHammer,
balanced thinking upon.....
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 06:54 pm
@HexHammer,
HexHammer;132770 wrote:
Trial and error?


If wisdom is understanding, then it is the ability to envision the whole on the basis of a couple of pieces of the whole...We should never forget that we are looking at one thing, the monad in all its variation, and to know the parts we must know the parts, but that is not wisdom, but to find the unity no one can grasp takes a skill which is natural, inate, and is one that requires insight which one may build upon and no one can buy...
 
Theologikos
 
Reply Fri 26 Mar, 2010 05:21 pm
@Karpowich,
Karpowich;122677 wrote:
Wisdom is quite different from knowledge. Wisdom is defined as "the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment; the quality of being wise." You could know all the useless facts in the world, but if you don't know how to manipulate those facts into something that's beneficial to the situations you are thrust into in life, then you are most definitely lacking wisdom. My question is this:
[INDENT]
  • If knowledge is attainable through study and academia, then how is wisdom attained? If it is attained through exact experience, then would two people who go through the exact same experiences be able to formulate the same answer to their problems? Perhaps wisdom is something that is simply incomprehensible to some? Perhaps some people lack the correct neuron structure to be able to link different thoughts in a productive manner. If this last hypothesis is so, what is different about the brain of those who are seemingly wise, and is it something that can be isolated and eventually artificially induced/genetically replicated. In short, is it possible to genetically alter a person's physical brain structure to give them a greater capacity for wisdom?

[/INDENT]



Wisdom is to experience as your racist grandmother is to wise.
 
north
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 08:20 pm
@Theologikos,
an evolved Human being
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 09:02 pm
@north,
north;144939 wrote:
an evolved Human being


Who Creates ? :perplexed:
 
north
 
Reply Sat 27 Mar, 2010 09:08 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Quote:
Originally Posted by north http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
an evolved Human being


Pepijn Sweep;144954 wrote:
Who Creates ? :perplexed:


we do , Humanity
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 01:45 am
@north,
north;144956 wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by north http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
an evolved Human being
we do , Humanity


[CENTER]

I think Humanity still has to grow, she is Peoples of the Earth's Common Sibbling.



I make non-sense; first some coffee... Wait

It;s Sunday morning & 3rd Dixieland event within 7 mile/20 km



"R U invlu-ence by Morals ? Apart from christian ?

I luckly have; now I a-preciate my Heritage

Pepijn SH Sweep
IJQ
[/CENTER]
 
north
 
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 06:10 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;145087 wrote:

[CENTER][/CENTER]

[CENTER]I think Humanity still has to grow, she is Peoples of the Earth's Common Sibbling. [/CENTER]

[CENTER][/CENTER]

[CENTER]I make non-sense; first some coffee... Wait[/CENTER]

[CENTER]It;s Sunday morning & 3rd Dixieland event within 7 mile/20 km[/CENTER]

[CENTER][/CENTER]

[CENTER]"R U invlu-ence by Morals ? Apart from christian ?[/CENTER]

[CENTER]I luckly have; now I a-preciate my Heritage[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Pepijn SH Sweep
IJQ[/CENTER]


I don't understand you
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 28 Mar, 2010 11:06 pm
@north,
north;145345 wrote:
I don't understand you


Of course U do not Under-standme. U read a few posts and think u can think like me ? I admit to be hermetic, but that's my Nature. I do not Change 4 U.
Science doesn't create, it's a va;uable instrument with little brains.

I have sympathy for Canada. And the British Empire.
Go to London soon. :poke-eye: Quebec ?Laughing
 
north
 
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2010 12:23 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;145424 wrote:
Of course U do not Under-standme. U read a few posts and think u can think like me ? I admit to be hermetic, but that's my Nature. I do not Change 4 U.
Science doesn't create, it's a va;uable instrument with little brains.

I have sympathy for Canada. And the British Empire.
Go to London soon. :poke-eye: Quebec ?Laughing

science tries to understand

hence wisdom
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2010 01:08 am
@north,
north;146526 wrote:
science tries to understand

hence wisdom


Scientific research is a valuable tool in the discovery of the Natural World. Some fields of research evolved into Sciencias which in Holland we split up in groups called alfa, beta and gamma sciences. They all use scientific methodes. Science is an abstration; it are the scientist who should understand.

Hence Knowledge, Not Wisdom

Pepijn Sweep,
Magister Ox:)
 
 

 
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