Defense of Freewill Against Determinism

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OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:23 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;145923 wrote:
Abuse is no substitute for argument. If you have nothing philosophical to say then say nothing.


You changed my mind. I know am your follower.
 
Night Ripper
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:27 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand;145928 wrote:
You changed my mind. I know am your follower.


I'll kick your ass in a debate any day. You know that, I'm guessing, which is why you refuse to enter the ring.
 
Amperage
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:30 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;145911 wrote:
Physical possibility or impossibility tells us something about the physical universe.
Agreed, however, logical possibility or impossibility can also tell us something about the physical world. Like it can be logically show that 5 does not equal 4 therefore it cannot be physically shown that 5 does equal 4. It is a physical impossibility.


Night Ripper;145911 wrote:
For it to be meaningful to talk about something being physically possible or impossible it must already be logically possible.
Agreed, which is precisely why we aren't gaining any ground because you are pretending that things which are logically impossible are somehow physically possible. Or rather you are ignoring the fact that what you are positing is logically impossible and instead skipping straight to whether it's physically possible/impossible
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:32 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;145931 wrote:
I'll kick your ass in a debate any day. You know that, I'm guessing, which is why you refuse to enter the ring.



I already beat you, but you refuse to change your opinion despite evidence.

Because I am your follower I will try to answer this in a way that you would.

Yes, people debate eachother, but this isn't because the only sentient beings on earth are people. They just happen to debate eachother while other creatures don't. This doesn't mean it is impossible. My chimp named Bob for instance is a very good chimp but he is just very shy, I could prove that my chimp debates, but my bob chimp only debates when i am around. Bob's debating skills are our little secret.

This poses the question are you a chimp named bob? or a person?
 
Night Ripper
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:35 pm
@Amperage,
Amperage;145933 wrote:
therefore it cannot be physically shown that 5 does equal 4


How exactly is that shown physically?

It's a well known fact that 1+1=2 in the case of apples but 1+1=1 in the case of raindrops.
 
Amperage
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:35 pm
@Night Ripper,
lol you guys need a sitcom
 
Night Ripper
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:38 pm
@Amperage,
Amperage;145937 wrote:
lol you guys need a sitcom


Stop trying to derail this thread because you're both too cowardly to be shown wrong. Answer my question.
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:43 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;145939 wrote:
Stop trying to derail this thread because you're both too cowardly to be shown wrong. Answer my question.



My chimp just told me that you were already proven wrong and that the same things have been said you like 5 times yet you act like they dont exist and then think you are winning the debate. (You either disregard reasons for your position to be wrong (there are many reasons) but your favorite is misrepresenting what someone said, evne though they said something incredibly simply and plainly.) My Chimp Bob also thinks that the rain drop analogy is idiotic because the definition of a drop is "The smallest quantity of liquid heavy enough to fall in a spherical mass" My chimp Bob Pointed out that when two drops become one there is no longer a drop because they are no longer the smallest quantity possible.

My chimp is taking over this debate by storm. His master already beat Night Ripper but Bob chimp is taking it for a whirl.
 
Amperage
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:46 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;145939 wrote:
Stop trying to derail this thread because you're both too cowardly to be shown wrong. Answer my question.
Really?


Amperage;145874 wrote:
you pretty much said that evidence can't prove something is physically impossible while not realizing you have no evidence for this, and, in fact, you can't use evidence since using evidence(apparently) cannot prove the opposite to be impossible according to your theory

thus the flaw in your logic.


the self-refuting nature of your theory has already been shown what question would you like answered?

how 1+1=2? well if I have one item and then a second item, then if I hold up one finger to represent the one item and then I hold up another finger to represent the second item, I can count how many fingers I'm holding up and will discover I'm holding up 2.
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:47 pm
@Amperage,
Amperage;145942 wrote:
Really?




the self-refuting nature of your theory has already been shown what question would you like answered?

how 1+1=2? well if I have one item and then a second item then if I hold up one finger to represent the one item and then I hold up another finger to represent the second item I can then count how many fingers I'm holding up to discover I'm holding up 2.


Bob chimp can add too. He is my favorite chimp.
 
Night Ripper
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:50 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand;145941 wrote:
My chimp just told me that you were already proven wrong and that the same things have been said you like 5 times yet you act like they dont exist and then think you are winning the debate. (You either disregard reasons for your position to be wrong (there are many reasons) but your favorite is misrepresenting what someone said, evne though they said something incredibly simply and plainly.) My Chimp Bob also thinks that the rain drop analogy is idiotic because the definition of a drop is "The smallest quantity of liquid heavy enough to fall in a spherical mass" My chimp Bob Pointed out that when two drops become one there is no longer a drop because they are no longer the smallest quantity possible.

My chimp is taking over this debate by storm. His master already beat Night Ripper but Bob chimp is taking it for a whirl.


You have a chimp? Well, I have a horse. The problem with my horse is that instead of engaging in logical arguments he makes incoherent vague appeals to science and then appeals to ridicule by braying out laughter like a regular jackass.

Needless to say, he's amusing but not very informative.
 
ughaibu
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:50 pm
@Night Ripper,
Reasons to reject realism about determinism:
1) circularity
2) incommensurability
3) irreversibility
4) randomnesses
5) regresses.
Reasons to accept realism about determinism, I cant think of any.
Reasons to espouse realism about free will:
1) it can be demonstrated
2) there are no good objections.
Reasons to deny realism about free will, see above, there is no good reason.
 
Night Ripper
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:52 pm
@Amperage,
Amperage;145942 wrote:
Really?




the self-refuting nature of your theory has already been shown what question would you like answered?

how 1+1=2? well if I have one item and then a second item, then if I hold up one finger to represent the one item and then I hold up another finger to represent the second item, I can count how many fingers I'm holding up and will discover I'm holding up 2.


If I add one raindrop and a second raindrop I get one raindrop, slightly bigger. What about that?
 
Amperage
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:53 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;145946 wrote:
If I add one raindrop and a second raindrop I get one raindrop, slightly bigger. What about that?
you mean if you combine one rain drop to another raindrop? yeah and... I'm not talking about combining things I'm talking about counting them as they are....if you want to get down to a smaller level say 1atom + 1atom ='s 2 atoms there is no combining to form 1 big atom, oh wait....according to your theory they just haven't it's not that they can't.


energy cannot be created or destroyed....oh wait no...according to you it just hasn't.
 
Night Ripper
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:56 pm
@Amperage,
Amperage;145948 wrote:
1atom + 1atom ='s 2 atoms there is no combining to form 1 big atom


You have to be joking. Have you ever read a science book, ever?

Nuclear fusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:56 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;145944 wrote:
You have a chimp? Well, I have a horse. The problem with my horse is that instead of engaging in logical arguments he makes incoherent vague appeals to science and then appeals to ridicule by braying out laughter like a regular jackass.

Needless to say, he's amusing but not very informative.


Bob chimp that thinks anything would be vague for someone who apparently can't read. Bob chimp thinks this is the only explenation for someone who hasnt responded to anything said that easily refutes the ripper's position.

Bob chimp is wondering if you are intelligent the implications of scientific laws. Bob chimp is also wondering if you understand that bob chimp is satire directed at YOU. Bob chimp thinks ripper copying an idea is ironic because it is making fun of the person writing. Bob chimp likes this but it also is funny. All in all Bob chimp thinks it also shows much dullness.
 
Night Ripper
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:57 pm
@OntheWindowStand,
OntheWindowStand;145950 wrote:
Bob chimp that thinks anything would be vague for someone who apparently can't read. Bob chimp thinks this is the only explenation for someone who hasnt responded to anything said that easily refutes the ripper's position.

Bob chimp is wondering if you are intelligent the implications of scientific laws. Bob chimp is also wondering if you understand that bob chimp is satire directed at YOU. Bob chimp thinks ripper copying an idea is ironic because it is making fun of the person writing. Bob chimp likes this but it also is funny. All in all Bob chimp thinks it also shows much dullness.


Please stop talking to me.
 
OntheWindowStand
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:57 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;145946 wrote:
If I add one raindrop and a second raindrop I get one raindrop, slightly bigger. What about that?



Bob chimp understands that a drop is a definite measurement. One drop of water cannout be larger than another. Bob chimp thinks you should know this.
 
Amperage
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:57 pm
@Night Ripper,
Night Ripper;145949 wrote:
You have to be joking. Have you ever read a science book, ever?

Nuclear fusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
you are missing the point irregardless.

the point is not about combining...that's a separate issue
 
Night Ripper
 
Reply Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:59 pm
@Amperage,
Amperage;145954 wrote:
you are missing the point irregardless


Irregardless he says! Wow, you're dumb.
 
 

 
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