On The Contrast Between Appearance And Reality

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

Pythagorean
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:27 pm
@Scottydamion,
Scottydamion;134939 wrote:
I think science is way ahead of you here. There are many good arguments that human intelligence is the result of physical causes. A lot of simple ones too. One being that we start as little fetuses with no brains at all. Everything that is required for us to be conscious would seem to be shown step by step through other species and embryology. We certainly do not understand it all, but I see no real line between a conscious thing and a non-conscious thing... we place a line there because it is what distinguishes us from other animals, but what is to stop them from evolving consciousness?


That's a hell of a way to agree with someone.
 
Scottydamion
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:28 pm
@melonkali,
melonkali;134952 wrote:
The Upper Paleolithic Revolution or Great Leap Forward? One of many problems cultural and physical anthropologists are dealing with concerning homo sapiens sapiens and the evolution of modern human behavior, considered with our general history of cultural "leaps" -- the genetic problems are starting to loom large, too, in this field.

rebecca


What makes cultural leaps a genetic problem? Is there no difference between mental capacity and brain usage? Meaning: If a cup is filled halfway, can it not be filled anymore?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:28 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;134938 wrote:
How can a scientific law have life? We understand Galileo's law of falling bodies. 1/2gt2. What is not intelligible about it?


it's intelligible because number is transcendental. The freaky thing is that nature is so aligned w/ our transcendental number. But then maybe our number is just an approximation, and we do not have the ability to see this. By the way, no scientific measurement of space is perfect. Or I don't see how it can be.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:31 pm
@Scottydamion,
Scottydamion;134946 wrote:
Now you're just bored, how many of your 7,000+ posts have been about beans anyways? Razz


Three exactly. Including this one. Why do you ask?
 
Scottydamion
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:33 pm
@Pythagorean,
Pythagorean;134955 wrote:
That's a hell of a way to agree with someone.


Maybe I just want to be confrontational, rawr!

But did it make sense? It is a difficult idea to even want to understand, to think we are nothing more than the result of a cocktail of physical phenomena at the classical and quantum level...
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:37 pm
@Scottydamion,
Scottydamion;134961 wrote:
Maybe I just want to be confrontational, rawr!

But did it make sense? It is a difficult idea to even want to understand, to think we are nothing more than the result of a cocktail of physical phenomena at the classical and quantum level...


A fundamental ontology provides a substructure of science. Man cannot be meaningless. He is hardwired for meaning. This is part of his basic structure. It doesn't matter what natural science indicates. Man must accept his death, but this is easier if he first realizes his eternity, or his pseudo-eternity that lasts as long as the species last.......

I hope man gets to the stars. We need to get off this planet. We need to spread to insure the survival of our essentially glorious species.....Haters be damned, as they are themselves damnation....
 
Pythagorean
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:37 pm
@Scottydamion,
Scottydamion;134946 wrote:
Now you're just bored, how many of your 7,000+ posts have been about beans anyways? Razz



I wonder how many of kenneth's posts have cultivated a sense of the irrational.

---------- Post added 03-02-2010 at 08:41 PM ----------

Scottydamion;134961 wrote:
Maybe I just want to be confrontational, rawr!

But did it make sense? It is a difficult idea to even want to understand, to think we are nothing more than the result of a cocktail of physical phenomena at the classical and quantum level...



Of course, it can make sense the question is, are you and kenneth capable of dealing with the conclusions of your position?

You are required to postulate in what way the human mind is a physical object and what is the nature between human minds and the "laws of nature". How is it possible for the mind to relate to the world and to understand the natural laws if it is a physical object?
 
melonkali
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:43 pm
@Scottydamion,
Scottydamion;134956 wrote:
What makes cultural leaps a genetic problem? Is there no difference between mental capacity and brain usage? Meaning: If a cup is filled halfway, can it not be filled anymore?


The genetic problem, per my understanding, may be throwing a monkey wrench into all theories of the early history of HSS, physical and cultural. Until the genetics get straightened out, or unless other anthropological (or archaeological) discoveries are made to help explain the present discrepancies, we may all be arguing from silence.

rebecca
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:45 pm
@Pythagorean,
Pythagorean;134965 wrote:
How is it possible for the mind to relate to the world and to understand the natural laws if it is a physical object?



Excellent point. The mind is not a physical object. It may be grounded somehow in the physical, but it itself as also the cause of the "physical"....

This is why science, however useful and impressive, is pragmatism, because it does not address ontology. Kant is shrewder here than Newton, and Hegel is shrewder than Kant.
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:47 pm
@Scottydamion,
Scottydamion;134961 wrote:
Maybe I just want to be confrontational, rawr!

But did it make sense? It is a difficult idea to even want to understand, to think we are nothing more than the result of a cocktail of physical phenomena at the classical and quantum level...


You mean, you would swap the eternal for the ephemeral? Now why would you do that? And where on the Serenghetti did we evolve the ability to launch the moon shot?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:49 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;134974 wrote:
You mean, you would swap the eternal for the ephemeral? Now why would you do that? And where on the Serenghetti did we evolve the ability to launch the moon shot?


Excellent point, jeeprs. But we have to give him credit for tarrying w/ the negative, for facing the risk of that idea....
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:53 pm
@Pythagorean,
As this can of worms has now been opened, let's see what is in it, starting with

Quote:
Keeping up a brain that can do everything from regulating heartbeats to wondering about consciousness is a costly undertaking. It soaks up about 20 percent of the body's oxygen supply - ten times its share by weight. Moreover, the human brain is so big that it makes birth exceptionally difficult. Women's hips are as broad as they can be and still allow bipedal locomotion. The tragic consequence is that, without modern medicine, an appalling number of mothers and babies die in childbirth.
That creates negative selection pressure, which must mean that there is an even greater opposing selection pressure in favor of big brains. What could explain that pressure?


(I will provide an attribution in due course.....)
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:54 pm
@Pythagorean,
Pythagorean;134965 wrote:
How is it possible for the mind to relate to the world and to understand the natural laws if it is a physical object?


An example of what is called an " ostensible counter-evidential intuition". How can life come from not life? Well, it did. How would it ever be possible for us to understand the constitution of the stars. Well, we do. How could the universe just happen? Well, apparently it did. How can we understand the laws of nature if we are just physical objects? Well, we do.
 
Pythagorean
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:57 pm
@Reconstructo,
Reconstructo;134973 wrote:
Excellent point. The mind is not a physical object. It may be grounded somehow in the physical, but it itself as also the cause of the "physical"....

This is why science, however useful and impressive, is pragmatism, because it does not address ontology. Kant is shrewder here than Newton, and Hegel is shrewder than Kant.


The question was: how do we account for human evolution when evolution is not the result of a random event?

What is the nature of man in relation to this theory of evolution?
 
Reconstructo
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:57 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;134982 wrote:
As this can of worms has now been opened, let's see what is in it, starting with


Great quote, jeeprs! I also thought it amazing that womens' hips are dangerously wide to squeeze out our big brains. ...Again, great quote...

---------- Post added 03-02-2010 at 08:59 PM ----------

Pythagorean;134985 wrote:
The question was: how do we account for human evolution when evolution is not the result of a random event?

What is the nature of man in relation to this theory of evolution?


In my opinion, that's not knowable with certainty.....

But I will say that logos proceeds the theory of its creation/evolution....which is logically irrefutable...as science is an evolution of logos..
 
jeeprs
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:59 pm
@Pythagorean,
It gets much better......
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 08:01 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs;134988 wrote:
It gets much better......


It couldn't!.............
 
Scottydamion
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 08:04 pm
@Pythagorean,
Pythagorean;134965 wrote:


Of course, it can make sense the question is, are you and kenneth capable of dealing with the conclusions of your position?

You are required to postulate in what way the human mind is a physical object and what is the nature between human minds and the "laws of nature". How is it possible for the mind to relate to the world and to understand the natural laws if it is a physical object?


What does being capable of dealing with the conclusions have to do with anything? I am not seeking for something I can or cannot deal with after all... I want to conform what I can deal with to what truth I am able to find.

Why would it not be possible to understand physical laws as a physical object? If we are able to seek out patterns, then it makes sense we would eventually find consistent patterns of nature.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 08:06 pm
@Scottydamion,
Scottydamion;134993 wrote:


Why would it not be possible to understand physical laws as a physical object? .


Since it is true that we can, it must be possible.
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 08:10 pm
@Pythagorean,
Pythagorean wrote:
The question was: how do we account for human evolution when evolution is not the result of a random event?


I first peered at your question to kenneth confusingly. But now I get it.

You're not looking for a cause. You're looking for one of those reasons. One of those reasons the mystical sort will suppose they know. So, explaining the origin of the mind through a chain of events, evolutionary history, will not suffice for you. Is this right?
 
 

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 01/12/2025 at 08:38:35