IMHO I believe that dreams are every bit as real as our waking reality. If you have ever experienced a lucid dream (a dream in which you are completely conscious), generally I believe one would accept that concept.

Simply put, 'reality' as humans can experience it is limited by our 5 senses.

..or falsely as related to the 'reality' other being are experiencing.

This would lead one to believe that 'reality' is a matter of perspective.

...I am not sure what you mean by 'what is experiencing this reality.'

Emotions are the link between the mind and the body.

The only thing that is 'real' is your consciousness, the observer; 'you' which remains constant in waking reality and dream reality.

I think we can be aware of dreaming,we never say to ourselves when we are awake there is another plain.

Maybe death is the next level of consciousness and reality may appear just as dream like.

Dreams allow our emotions free will and reality our freedom of choice.It is an amazing place we all visit on a nightly basis and spend a large portion of our lives.Good thread, thanks xris.

Do you think that some people may have sensory abilities beyond those that you or I might think of as the common senses.

Do you see this as a difference or as real and not real?

Who can challenge the truth of what I say of my own dreams?

But do you have emotions when you are dreaming and have no sense of your body?

IMHO I believe that dreams are every bit as real as our waking reality. If you have ever experienced a lucid dream (a dream in which you are completely conscious), generally I believe one would accept that concept.

Simply put, 'reality' as humans can experience it is limited by our 5 senses. (Anyone who has seen The Matrix has been though this thought process.) Our mind is capable of producing sensory information (i.e. reality) falsely, or falsely as related to the 'reality' other being are experiencing. (e.g Psychedelics) This would lead one to believe that 'reality' is a matter of perspective.

...I am not sure what you mean by 'what is experiencing this reality.'

Emotions are the link between the mind and the body.

The only thing that is 'real' is your consciousness, the observer; 'you' which remains constant in waking reality and dream reality.

Lots of good stuff here.

Lucid dreams: Well, typically for me they start as a typical dream, however, there are various things that can 'trigger' the dream from this state to lucid. Clocks are a good example as analog clock will stay the same consistently and looking at digital clocks more then once in a dream will scramble their data.
After the 'trigger' I am fully conscious in my own self-created dream 'world' in which I can do as I please. I can create and destroy and interact as I see fit.

I have a hard time comprehending anything that is 'not real' because as long as I can 'think' or 'imagine' something, even something that is not capable of manifesting in my 'average' daily consciousness so that I can observe it, that 'thing' is 'real' as in that it is a 'thought' (or concept).

I would have said, 'who can challenge the reality of what I perceive through the only facet I have to discern reality?'...but I think we are both on the same page.

Rarely do I experience emotion, and that seems to carry over to my dreams.

My lucid dreams last too short a time but when they occur are amazing ,I wonder at my minds imagination.

Dreams exist, but what happens in dreams is not real.

So, "Dreams are real" may mean, "Dreams exist" and that is true. But, "Dreams are real" may mean, what happens in dreams is real, and that, of course, is false. Just a simple matter of ambiguity, and I have cleared it up by exposing the ambiguity.

This is the point of the discussion. I appreciate your point of view, but for others it is different. For example, the emotions I feel during my dreams feel just as real as they are when I am awake - in some cases even more amplified.

Whether dreams are real or not is the whole purpose of the discussion. If there was no debate about this, the discussion would not come up. I understand that you do not feel it is real.

You may want to listen to the rest of the discussion in order to understand there are other points of views. This is not a question of calling a touchdown and refereeing what is true and false. This is a question of learning new things about what other people experience in their lives.

Rich

But, "Dreams are real" may mean, what happens in dreams is real, and that, of course, is false.

What occurs in dreams is not real since if you dream that you are in Africa, and hunting tigers you are not doing so. You are asleep in bed.

Even children, after they wake up, and Mommy tells them that what they dreamed is not real, understand that.

It is interesting that a time element might trigger the lucid dream. Were you always able to do this? Has it affected your life in any way?

"Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"
[-The Matrix]

-You wouldn't simply because:

"What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can hear, what you can smell, taste and feel then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain."
[-The Matrix]

Perhaps instead blatantly proclaiming that what occurs in a dream is not 'real' one should be kind enough to explain to us exactly why this is.

'You' refers to 'consciousness' because what I am is an observer, ergo, whatever I can observe is 'real.'

This is the very reason so many of us have trouble coping with the fact that the comfort, consistent 'reality' we are so familiar with is just one tiny piece of the puzzle.

Yeah, light switches will trigger it too. Flip a switch, no light difference. Odd, but it works. It really hasn't affected my life a whole lot, other then re-enforcing the knowledge that 'reality' isn't constant. Lucid dreaming, even induced by certain chemicals, is perfectly harmless, and a lot of fun.

Even children, after they wake up, and Mommy tells them that what they dreamed is not real, understand that. That they feel real to the child (or adult) is neither here nor there.

But you do not observe anything when you are sleeping and dreaming. How could you when your eyes are closed?

Peter Viereck the late American poet, said that what is real is what remains when you have stopped believing in it.

The experience feels as real as anything else. What are the differences? Where do they come from? And why do they both feel real as they are being experienced.

Yeah, light switches will trigger it too. Flip a switch, no light difference. Odd, but it works. It really hasn't affected my life a whole lot, other then re-enforcing the knowledge that 'reality' isn't constant. Lucid dreaming, even induced by certain chemicals, is perfectly harmless, and a lot of fun.

Thanks for the explanation and info.

I am not satisfied with the chemical explanation, since how does a chemical know what to do and when to do it?

A chemical is a chemical is a chemical. A brain is a brain is a brain. How does that piece of matter decide to switch states?

Thanks again for sharing with me your experiences.

Rich

Ah the mystery. I have not yet come to be able to explain the force that seems to drive everything, and is responsible for all the action (if indeed there is any 'force' influencing events), so I just tend to leave it at that. I can't know. Yet. Likewise.

Dreams are a product of the mind. You are something more. The observer. Therefore, you can observe your dreams. You observe your dreams, right?

I could be wrong, but perhaps I see a deeper meaning in that quote.



Now here is something worth discussion. (And perhaps a worthy argument) I would ask you to offer your opinion of the aforementioned questions, before I offer mine?

The point trying to be made is that when you are actually dreaming, that is reality for you, its only after you awake you are aware of its illusion.Is reality an illusion? is there a higher reality we are not aware of?Lucid dreaming makes you aware of the fact you are not dreaming,is there a state of mind that can convince you that this existance is not the only reality?