I think, so that we don't forget, I will list some of the things I do in my life that utilizes my creative being without any sense of logic, science, math, or whatever:

1) Play the piano
2) Play tennis, basketball, golf, table tennis
3) Cook
4) Play games
5) Conversation
7) Yoga, Qigong, and Taijiquan
8) Paint and draw
9) Write poetry
10) Sing
11) Dance
12) Take care of my health and overall well-being
13) Stock market investing

and everything else that I do that is creative and comes from within my spirit. The logic/intellect stuff is just a very small part of my life. I use to to fill out my tax forms, negotiate business deals, etc. I enjoy using all aspects of my being, and I do not feel that one part of me is any more necessary or better than any other part of me. They are all real to me - including my dreams.

Rich

The logic/intellect stuff is just a very small part of my life. Amen! Never a truer word....

"Real to me" and "real" are very different. Really.

Yes, and this is the quandary that I see. It seems real when we are a asleep, but when we are awake it feels different. Why?

In dreams we are not the masters, we dont direct the dream it directs us,we merely observe,in the conscious mind we have control.

"Real to me" and "real" are very different. Really.

I believe that the 'I' that exists as an entity, consciousness, an observer, came to manifest within a complex enough biological structure capable of sustaining 'itself' in this 'version' of 'reality."

Consciousness, what we 'are' could perhaps be something infinitely more flexible then anyone has ever wanted to think about.

The problem is that I can not prove to anyone what I know because most of my perspective about my being is directly based on experiences that have lead me to see things as such, and without anyone having the same or similar experiences my perspective may seem a little ludicrous to some.

So perhaps when we are asleep our mind-self is asleep and our consciousness, or 'being'...what we ultimately are, is free to roam past the normal restrictions of our 'physical reality'...but it is strange to us. We are not used to it and skilled in it. So it feels different then our waking reality.

Then how do you explain lucid dreaming where one has complete control of their dream?

So until someone can provide me with a method of determining what 'portions' of this universal 'reality' that is totally independent of 'us' or to the converse, I am going to remain ambiguous about the situation and lean towards what my experiences have shown me.

Yes, I agree. What I believe is going on is that the mind (consciousness) is evolving and is building a more elaborate nervous system in order to receive and transmit information (the brain, spine, nervous system complex), and a physical body that is able to move around and observe what is going on. So, for me, it begins with the mind/consciousness.

I don't believe there is proof of anything. Everything is always changing.

I think you misunderstand. I see consciousness, 'me,' 'I,' my 'being' as separate from the mind & body. The mind/brain/body is the biological structure required for consciousness in this 'reality.' Sorta like the container. (Some people may call this the 'soul' although I typically refrain due to the common concept of that word)

Nothing is certain except uncertainty and the only constant is change.

Yes, I understand this. My view is a bit different. I see it as a continuum. Mind/Consiousness --> Energy --> Matter. It is possible to see some inkling of these connections in every day life (thinking uses up energy, energy is created from oxygen and food), and from scientific theories such as Quantum Physics and Special Relativity. So for me, everything is made of the same thing, it is just manifesting differently like vapor, water, ice.



I agree. Everything seems to be changing all the time.

Rich

Process, change, flux is the most fundamental reality.
Perpetual perishing and rebirth.
One moment of experience perishes and a new moment of experience is born, incorporating elements of the past and drawing from from the possiblities of the future. Fixed reality is an illusion.

Hi There,

Yes, it does seem like everything continuously goes through the birth/death cycle. Even the cells in a living body are continually renewing.

There does seem to be some desire for, or sense of, continuity so I would say this is just as much part of our experience. It could be like a pendulum. Where for an instant everything stops before it starts flowing again.

Rich

Mostly I am mounting an attack on materialism as a worldview.
The notion of static material "being" is fundamentally flawed.
"Becoming" process, a dynamic is more fundamental than Being a static..
True elements of the past are incorporated in the present and carried into the future but which is more primary?
In the end matter is energy and energy is always flux. Materialism is an illusion.
Process as a metaphysic is very helpful in cosmology, evolution, life and mind. Process also turns out to be useful in theology.

people seem to inherit knowledge from past lives

What makes you believe this?

I asked myself one day, if there were multiple lives, how would it manifest itself? What kind of evidence might there be?

So I observed a single life (a thought experiment), and noticed two things:

1) People are developing different skills and seem to be on their own journey.

2) Some people seem to have more developed skills or natural talent from childhood: music, mathematics, sports, dancing, artistry, business - my talent, science, etc..

So, I thought to myself, that if there were multiple lives, then it would show up as has being more adept in subsequent lives. And those who are not skilled in this life, may be here just to develop greater skills for their next life.

These notions very nicely address Camus' question concerning the absurdity of life (we are here to explore and learn), as well as addressing all of the notions of inherited characteristics, innate capabilities, instincts, and where do they come from? It all seems very nice and symmetrical to me.

The key question is why do we retain memory of skills but not of prior physical existences? Some people claim that they do remember prior lives. My take, is that when one dies, it is a way of wiping the slate clean so that one can begin afresh again. Sort of like starting a new game of soccer, and the score goes back to zero. I think sports is a great metaphor for life.

Hope this answers your question.

Rich

Yes, it does. How else could any of this be explained except by reincarnation? It is obviously, by far, the most probable explanation. And I love that "key question" of yours, and your answer. In fact it was the only difficulty I have with your theory, and you dealt with it perfectly. I wonder why I never thought of it. What about you, ACB? Aren't you convinced? (Consider that authority, Camus. What a stroke of genius!)

Well, I am always open to new ideas, but I find the evidence in this case rather thin. Here are a few comments and suggestions for discussion:

1. By what mechanism are memories of skills transferred from one life to the next?

2. What type of continuing entity connects a person's present life with their past and future ones? What makes a particular past life their past life rather than someone else's? It cannot simply be memory, because identity and memory are two separate things.

3. It is difficult to see how newly-born infants would have the neurological capacity to retain 'inherited' memories.

4. Inherited memories of skills would lead to increasing inequality of abilities. Those who inherit great skills would be able to build on them from one life to the next, while those without them would have to strive harder and harder to catch up, which many would fail to do. A bit like inherited wealth, really.

5. The idea that "we are here to explore and learn" implies an intelligent designer behind it all. Would that be God, or something else?


Interesting speculation, but I'm afraid I'm not convinced. I prefer to apply Ockham's Razor and look for more down-to-earth explanations.

Well, I am always open to new ideas, but I find the evidence in this case rather thin. Here are a few comments and suggestions for discussion:

1. By what mechanism are memories of skills transferred from one life to the next?

2. What type of continuing entity connects a person's present life with their past and future ones?

What makes a particular past life their past life rather than someone else's? It cannot simply be memory, because identity and memory are two separate things.

3. It is difficult to see how newly-born infants would have the neurological capacity to retain 'inherited' memories.

4. Inherited memories of skills would lead to increasing inequality of abilities. Those who inherit great skills would be able to build on them from one life to the next, while those without them would have to strive harder and harder to catch up, which many would fail to do. A bit like inherited wealth, really.

5. The idea that "we are here to explore and learn" implies an intelligent designer behind it all. Would that be God, or something else?

I'll start with simplified ideas, but sometimes those are the best.



Jung suggests that memories are maintained in what he would call the collective unconscious. Throughout his life he documented evidence of the collective unconscious. I would call this the Universal Consciousness or what Chinese metaphysics refers to as the Spirit.

Everyone has access to this basic evolving resource via their brain/spine/central nervous system, since everyone is connected to it like waves in the ocean. One might call it the quantum field which stretches for infinity. The Universal Consciousness is the TV broadcasting studio and the human brain is the TV set receiving signals. Depending upon the capabilities of the brain/nervous system, the Individual Consciousness (mind) will receive and transmit different signals and learn different things. We are all evolving individually and together.



It is the individual consciousness or what some have called the soul. In Chinese metaphysics it is the Hun. Basically, it can be thought of the individual wave in the ocean that keeps moving along.



There are individual waves/souls that manifest out of the universal wave (consciousness). It is like a giant spiral (the beginning) that keeps spiraling, and spiraling creating other spirals. This is how a pendulum might spiral. So we have polarity of the pendulum (back and forth) and the spirals that it carves out. It manifests as what is called the quantum wave.





Newborns have skills when they are born and gradually build on them.



Everything is evolving together, since everything is connected to the Universal Consciousness, Collective Unconscious, or Source. But each one of us is tuned into different aspects and is evolving slightly differently. So it is a human normal curve with everyone fitting somewhere on that curve with different standard deviations.



I would simply call it the Universal Consciousness though some might call it the Dao or Spinoza's god. It is conscious, as we are all, and it is exploring its creations - like a child with play dough.

It think this is all very simple. One only has to look out in the physical world to understand how the more ethereal world is manifesting itself. It is all connected.

Rich