GoshisDead,

G: The process of finding that all we need to do is sit down is more complicated than just taking a seat.

S9: Is it? What exactly is it about "Stop" that is so difficult to fathom? The mind certainly likes to take what is simple and make it complex. Conflict is mind's very lifeblood.

When we actually "stop" even for a second, what we run into is a "Quiet Calm Presence." Then the mind immediately steps in and tells us that this is nothing or this is emptiness. But in fact what we have stumbled onto is Pure Awareness without any need of an object.

This is probably why some have referred to this state as the 'Dark Night of the Soul.' This is because the mind paints this state in one of two ways: (1) As itself having been abandoned or (2) of having no place to go. But then wouldn't we expect the mind to think this way? The mind has never known anything but dissatisfaction and the consequent search for satisfaction. Therefore the mind sees this is a loss of all hope.

The problem is that when we are in this place of non-becoming, or Being, we simply don't know where we are. It takes some time, just like a newborn baby in order to see where we are and to understand the true meaning of such profound freedom.

G: The capital T if it is the chair of 'we already are and always have been' requires a specific set of blinders to be removed for us to see it, hence the term again enlightenment.

S9: Exactly, so now the question becomes how in "God's Name" do we get those seemingly ever-present blinders off?

I just "Stopped." But, what do I mean by that? What I did was completely except what every wise and enlightened person before was saying. I believed that I (Spiritual Self) was already here and now in the Eternal Here and Now.

I knew that the answer was right here, right now in this room with me, or in this immediate moment and required absolutely no time to come about. I looked around me to see what was eternal, or what never changed. I used the litmus of discrimination, "What doesn't come and go or what isn't temporary?"

There is no doubt in my mind that the mind at one point was a wonderful tool and brought me to the place where I could finally 'Stop.' But at some point, after perhaps this exhaustion you speak of starts to set in, we must finally "Stop". It is the only way.

When the Buddha became enlightened, He had just previously stopped and taken his seat under the Bodhi tree. (A metaphor for exactly what I am trying to say)

However when his friends saw him later, after he was enlightened, they simply thought he had failed, or quit, or simply abandoned the path. In fact, what he had done was "Wake Up," to who he was, and the Ultimate Reality of that.


Subjectivity9

I knew that the answer was right here, right now in this room with me, or in this immediate moment and required absolutely no time to come about. I looked around me to see what was eternal, or what never changed. I used the litmus of discrimination, "What doesn't come and go or what isn't temporary?"

When the Buddha became enlightened, He had just previously stopped and taken his seat under the Bodhi tree. (A metaphor for exactly what I am trying to say)

Subjectivity9

The fact that most people believe that they are on a journey, that will provide what is necessary to enlightenment, doesn't prove that the journey is necessary. All that it proves is that over and over again some, no most, people make the same mistake. They believe that they must go somewhere and do something to accomplish enlightenment. They can't just simply wake up in any given moment.

But actually that is beside the point. What we must ask our selves at some point is, "Can I stop?" Can I step off this seemingly endless path? Or must I travel in circles (birth and death) some more, maybe millennia, before I am ready to make that leap?

Kennethamy,

I believe that if you were to look into the Enlightenment traditions that have been around for centuries and practiced by literally millions of people, you would not venture to say that I am out there swinging by myself. Ah contra!

I have no doubt that you are seeing what I am saying as impossible to understand, but that does not in itself prove that I am selling snake oil.

There is no thing that is good, which cannot equally be used for evil purposes. It is true. But this does not mean that we should get rid of everything that has the possibility for powerful good advantage, just to be on the safe side. ("Cut off our nose to spite our face.") :-}

I am sure that anything as new as this seems to be to you, must be a little frightening. I caution you to give it time and look into understanding it, rather than cutting yourself off from such great advantage. I wish you the best.

Subjectivity9

At night when you are dreaming, in a way this is a little journey. But what is this journey? Is it not just imagination without any real substantiality?

So it is with our waking life as well. All of these journeys/stories seem very real when they are going on. But what do they amount to?

Now I am not debating that the dreams go on and even seem to continue after a person has become enlightened. What I am questioning is, 'what part of that dream/journey is in fact you?'

All mistakes are likely made with good intentions. We are only doing the best we can. But every now and then a Spiritual friend will tell us what he/she has discovered or is it remembered, no matter, and new doors seem to open up for us.

After the Buddha was 100% enlightened he continued to meditate daily. Why was this, do you think?

I think it was because the dream goes on until the energy wears out. (Obviously I am just speculating here.) Enlightened persons don't become catatonic or just drop down dead.

The real difference was that Buddha knew that he wasn't the dream self. In knowing who you are, you also know who you are not.

Is this basically just a part of your character that has always has been that way, or are you into the whole concept of surrender?

When you say that your Soul/Mind chooses to do it, are you basing this on your having seen for yours self that life as it plays itself out is pretty much automatic?

Anyway, I would be curious to hear what your take on this is.

Everyone in fact is going their own way, no doubt. They are following their bliss as Joseph Campbell has said. Perhaps all that we are doing here is comparing notes, or is it maps.

Incidentally, I too believe that every event and every individual that comes before you is a lesson of sorts. But isn't that what we would expect from a healthy and growing mind?

I am not suggesting that anyone rush to become enlightened. That would presuppose traveling to a destination beyond what we already are. What I am suggesting is "more of the same" in what you are already doing. Look around, and take it all in, "ALL" in. In doing so, what have called 'Mindfulness,' you will come upon the REAL.

Yes, I agree with you, Jesus, Buddha, Ramana, Lao Tzu, and Adyashanti are/were just ordinary men. These are however men who, like myself and many others, became addicted and couldn't stop, until one fine day did stop and notice that they were home.

Rich,

until one fine day they did stop and notice that they were home and that they had been home all along.


Subjectivity

I heard it said, "You are your destiny." (An aside: Destiny is a mind thing.)

I find myself jumping from one perspective to another throughout my day and life.

This much I know to be true, I am far from any stage of enlightenment and am not sure I'll make it there before I die. Whether the the method it journeying, just stopping, or jumping down spinning around and picking a bail of cotton I'm just no there. Somewhen maybe.

You must be exhausted. Or at the very least somewhat dizzy.

Like they say Tick Tock, Ignorance is bliss. I'm down with this life good and bad.

I figure it like this, the actual pursuit of enlightment is counterproductive, methodical pursuit of enlightenment is putting your own ego above that of the Universe/God/Whatever, and you therefore lack the required humility to be enlightened.