Know Thyself?

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

richrf
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 09:02 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;96001 wrote:
I think that there is a tradition in philosophy which we find in Socrates, and Hume, and in recent philosophers like Dennett, which gives what is called, "a definition in use" of "philosophy".


And what about the hundreds of millions of people in all parts of the world who have a philosophy that has grown from roots other that what you personally have studied? South America, Asia, Pacific Islanders, Middle East, American Indian, etc.? The roots of my philosophy embrace many cultures from all around the world. Socrates is just a minor element in my philosophical experiences.

Rich
 
Subjectivity9
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 09:57 am
@richrf,
Ken,

I think when you say the “right way” of doing philosophy, what you actually mean is “your way is the right way” of doing philosophy. That would narrow it down to one man, you. Socrates and Hume are only admitted into this narrow/exclusive club if, and only if, they agree with you, and not the other way around.

You even pick and choose what is traditional, to your own personal taste, conveniently throwing out the ancient Greeks, (What weren’t they traditional enough for you?), simply for not agreeing with you.

“Of with their heads.” ; ^ )

Of course we all do this to some extent, but I believe that we must be judicious and guard again this weakness out of fairness to others. I don’t believe ‘Truth’ or philosophy was meant to be autocratic.

If we put philosophy in a straight jacket, we shouldn’t be surprised if she loses her zest for life or even (God forbid) dies.

Subjectivity9
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 10:10 am
@richrf,
richrf;96014 wrote:
And what about the hundreds of millions of people in all parts of the world who have a philosophy that has grown from roots other that what you personally have studied? South America, Asia, Pacific Islanders, Middle East, American Indian, etc.? The roots of my philosophy embrace many cultures from all around the world. Socrates is just a minor element in my philosophical experiences.

Rich


Well, I had not heard that there was a philosophy of the Somoan Islands, but, if there is, they can advance it, and see whether the Harvard philosophy department wants to teach it. I am not surprised to hear about your acquaintance with Socrates.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 12:33 pm
@Pathfinder,
Pathfinder;95976 wrote:
TT,

Maybe what you should scribble into your notepad is for you to question why you yourself feels the need to run from the metaphysical with such haste. Perhaps there is more wisdom to be found in understanding why you have a distaste for something instead of why others have particular tastes.


I could write that, but I would just be reiterating to myself.


Pathfinder;95976 wrote:
No good reason to suppose! Hmmmmmmmmm
whoops, did I just suppose by mistake? sorry bout that hmmmmm, whooops did it again,,hmmm cant seem to help myself for some reason. hmmmmm


If this is an example of the thought process used to develop a metaphysical belief system, then I believe you have answered your own question as to why I run from the metaphysical with such haste.
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 03:11 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;95962 wrote:
I suppose that you mean that you believed they meant something at the time. I am sure you did. But, of course, that doesn't show they did.


Your conclusion seems unarguable. Thanks.
 
Pathfinder
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 04:52 pm
@TickTockMan,
ticktockman wrote:
i could write that, but i would just be reiterating to myself.




If this is an example of the thought process used to develop a metaphysical belief system, then i believe you have answered your own question as to why i run from the metaphysical with such haste.




hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm????????????????????????
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 05:49 pm
@Subjectivity9,
Subjectivity9;95980 wrote:

I, as a Jnani, have used my mind as my path in this endeavor.
Subjectivity9


How certain are you that you can trust your mind?

I have a similar problem with the whole idea of self-help books. How can one know that the advice given with the intent of rendering aid is being interpreted correctly by the mind which has determined it is in need of help in the first place?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 05:55 pm
@Subjectivity9,
Subjectivity9;96020 wrote:
Ken,

I think when you say the "right way" of doing philosophy, what you actually mean is "your way is the right way" of doing philosophy. That would narrow it down to one man, you. Socrates and Hume are only admitted into this narrow/exclusive club if, and only if, they agree with you, and not the other way around.

You even pick and choose what is traditional, to your own personal taste, conveniently throwing out the ancient Greeks, (What weren't they traditional enough for you?), simply for not agreeing with you.

"Of with their heads." ; ^ )

Of course we all do this to some extent, but I believe that we must be judicious and guard again this weakness out of fairness to others. I don't believe 'Truth' or philosophy was meant to be autocratic.

If we put philosophy in a straight jacket, we shouldn't be surprised if she loses her zest for life or even (God forbid) dies.

Subjectivity9


I was under the impression that Socrates was an Ancient Greek philosopher. I must have been misinformed.
 
richrf
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:04 pm
@TickTockMan,
TickTockMan;96082 wrote:
How certain are you that you can trust your mind?

I have a similar problem with the whole idea of self-help books. How can one know that the advice given with the intent of rendering aid is being interpreted correctly by the mind which has determined it is in need of help in the first place?


It is all about learning to feel. Your mind/body provides all types of hints whether or not something needs to be changed - e.g. sadness, pain, anger, etc. These are all clues. As one practices certain arts, one learns to feel more about what is going on within oneself. Whether there is stress, stagnation, or whether there is smooth flowing.

These are all indications. But if you rely strictly on knowing through thinking, then I agree that you are lost. There are clues, but you are simply ignoring them. Learning to understand oneself is a learning process.

Rich
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:06 pm
@richrf,
richrf;96084 wrote:
It is all about learning to feel. Your mind/body provides all types of hints whether or not something needs to be changed - e.g. sadness, pain, anger, etc. These are all clues. As one practices certain arts, one learns to feel more about what is going on within oneself. Whether there is stress, stagnation, or whether there is smooth flowing.

These are all indications. But if you rely strictly on knowing through thinking, then I agree that you are lost. There are clues, but you are simply ignoring them. Learning to understand oneself is a learning process.

Rich


Unless one is blind, why would anyone have to learn how to feel?
 
Subjectivity9
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:11 pm
@richrf,
TT Man,

It is a good idea to carry around a little notebook with you, on which to jot down your ideas. Sometimes these ideas are not fully formed, when we catch them on the wing. But these very same ideas can easily develop later, with the help of our notes, rather than be lost to us. : ^ )

I read a book on creativity some years back, in which I was surprised by just how many creative people do jot things down in a little notebook as you have. Some people even keep a notebook and pencil beside their bed in order to write down what is discovered by them during their dreams. Some of this turns out to be very good stuff, even personal breakthroughs

Funny story:

A guy kept getting all of these great ideas when he was stoned out of his mind. But later on, he would forget these profound ideas altogether. So finally he decided to jot one down while he was stoned and read it later. Which he did, feeling very proud of himself for thinking of it.

The next day when he was in a more normal state of mind, he grab his note to read it, all excited to see what it had to say.

It said, “There is a strange smell in the room.” ; ^ )

(Maybe you've heard this one. It is an oldy but goody.)


It seems to me that you are drawn to understand enlightenment, and yet at the same time don’t feel that you can be trusting in this area. But actually the only one you need to trust is you.

The whole idea of desperation may make you uncomfortable. Perhaps this is because you associate control with intelligence, and you would like to believe that you are intelligent.

Let me just say one thing, intelligence doesn’t need to be harsh, it can be playful. If you are in fact intelligent, no one can take this from you.

And from what I have seen, you certainly, without a doubt, are intelligent.

If I were you, I would save these little notes and read them occasional just for the fun of it, and to see what they may reveal to you over time.

Subjectivity9
 
richrf
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:15 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;96087 wrote:
Unless one is blind, why would anyone have to learn how to feel?


To answer the kind of questions that TT is asking.

Rich
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:19 pm
@richrf,
richrf;96092 wrote:
To answer the kind of questions that TT is asking.

Rich



But what does it mean "to know how to feel"? Feelings are spontaneous so far as I am aware. One has to learn how to think, since thinking is hard. But not to feel, since feeling takes no effort (unfortunately).
 
Subjectivity9
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:22 pm
@richrf,
Ken,

Yes, Socrates was an ancient Greek. But I don’t believe that he shared your definition for philosophy. Can you show me where he said a new definition for philosophy?

S9
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:34 pm
@Subjectivity9,
Subjectivity9;96094 wrote:
Ken,

Yes, Socrates was an ancient Greek. But I don't believe that he shared your definition for philosophy. Can you show me where he said a new definition for philosophy?

S9


I just listed Socrates as part of the tradition of Western philosophy. I did not say he agreed with my definition. I think, though, that his practice exemplified my definition. A shoemaker does not have to define "shoe making" in order make shoes.
 
Subjectivity9
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:37 pm
@richrf,
TT Man,

I don’t put blind trust in my mind. I see it as a useful instrument much like a computer.

Absolution would appreciate this one. “Some have said that the mind isn’t a tool for telling us what is right. It is however the best tool for telling us what isn’t right.” Therefore the Neti/Neti (not this/not this) is a practice used by the Hindus to clean house.

But, yes my mind has served me well. When I believe that I have understood something, I merely check with some of the great minds throughout the centuries and find that I am in correspondence with them.

Self-help books are all over the place. But one psychologist said, “If it works for you, than it is a good method for you." Sounds a little like our friend Rich, doesn’t it?

Sometimes we just have to trust our selves. When we do, and things work out well, this builds self-esteem.

S9
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:49 pm
@Subjectivity9,
Subjectivity9;96099 wrote:
But one psychologist said, "If it works for you, than it is a good method for you." Sounds a little like our friend Rich, doesn't it?



S9


Obviously, since, "if it works for you, then it is a good method for you" is a tautology. "Good method for you", and, "works for you", mean exactly the same thing, so what your psychologist was really saying was "if something is a good method for you, then it is a good method for you". No one has to be a genius to come up with that.
 
Subjectivity9
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 06:51 pm
@richrf,
Ken,

Feeling starts with the physical, and grows more and more subtle as you develop you attention to it. It even takes us into areas like intuition and Spiritual insight. Everything is not as materialistic as one may first imagined it to be.

S9

---------- Post added 10-08-2009 at 08:59 PM ----------

Ken,

Never the less, this is how a lot of medicine works. They try stuff until something works. In a practical sense, that is what we go to a doctor for, to get well. Not to see if he is great with words.

S9
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 07:10 pm
@Subjectivity9,
Subjectivity9;96104 wrote:
Ken,

Feeling starts with the physical, and grows more and more subtle as you develop you attention to it. It even takes us into areas like intuition and Spiritual insight. Everything is not as materialistic as one may first imagined it to be.

S9

---------- Post added 10-08-2009 at 08:59 PM ----------

Ken,

Never the less, this is how a lot of medicine works. They try stuff until something works. In a practical sense, that is what we go to a doctor for, to get well. Not to see if he is great with words.

S9


I don't think I understand what you mean. All I said was that since, "it works for you" and , "it is a good method for you" mean the same thing, then how would it be possible for something to work for you, and not be a good method for you? It would not be. So, if someone tells you that since it works for you, it is a good method for you, that is just an empty truism. Like saying that all dogs are dogs. Neither is very informative, since you already knew both. How could you not already know that if something works for you, then it is a good method for you? So, why would someone have to tell you that?
 
Subjectivity9
 
Reply Thu 8 Oct, 2009 07:16 pm
@richrf,
Rich,

I think that you have learned that introspection is a way of feeling. It both keeps us in touch with our body and our mind.

I believe that this correspondence with different parts of our self is a good way to remain healthy, more like preventative medicine than picking up the broken pieces later, when something sends us to the hospital.

I also believe that if we want to live wisely, we really have to keep our finger on our pulse. It will tell us if what we are doing, and how we are doing it, is causing us to be happy.

Very often the body will convey something important to us, that we have either been overlooking or even trying to ignore.

S9
 
 

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 01/09/2025 at 02:32:27