The aims of Aliens - Only for believers

@xris,

xris wrote:

Ghost you dont hear what my family say about me or you would not accuse me of not wanting to believe.I can believe if the evidence is sound, i can believe that governments can manipulate the truth but i cant believe we have these layers of truth that can be hidden one from the other. I cant believe a government that is so opposed to the reliance of ME oil and is fighting wars to obtain it would be so against free power. It would transform american economy , it would save the world from green house gases it would stop weather dominating our future lives..Sorry free energy plants miles underground and flying saucers made by humans that can fly at light speed nnnnoooo its too much.I believe in the possibility of aliens visiting us, whatever that means, but this other stuff... sorry a giant step for me..I have listened and heard their witness some are convincing others very convincing and lots i dont believe..

Well, you are right, man made machines that travel at light speed do sound a bit far fetched, but not until I read stories about people acquiring massive radiation burn, after claiming to have witnessed a UFO, in close quarters, which is medically documented, and I'm sure Aliens would have crafts that don't release radiation, they work in a much more complex way. I started to think, well, it would be the ultimate goal of our Government, and if they were reverse-engineering these UFO's, I do doubt they have obtained light speed and the propulsion mechanisms used by Aliens, but they would have made some major breakthroughs by now on their secret crafts, even if they don't have UFO's to work with. He might have just read the speedo wrong? More likely is he never even went in one, or was officially told how fast these things could go, he only made estimates, which unfortunately for us, lessens the credibility of his story, and the Disclosure Project. As for oil, it's a simple as pie, power and greed, trillions are made from oil every year, what would happen if all that asset became worthless over night, I don't have to say much more.

@Aedes,

Are you a scoffer or a sceptic ? would you find a jumbo with this telescope or even a cloud at 10000 feet.Its perspective.Its the same as seeing a beach ball pass your view when looking out to sea at a sailing boat with binoculars.

@xris,

xris;47591 wrote:

Are you a scoffer or a sceptic ?

Me? Just asking questions.

xris wrote:

would you find a jumbo with this telescope or even a cloud at 10000 feet.Its perspective.Its the same as seeing a beach ball pass your view when looking out to sea at a sailing boat with binoculars.

I do a lot of photography, I understand perspective. But if a UFO has come here from another planet, then we have the opportunity to see them at almost any point in their journey -- NOT just when they're hanging out in New Mexico.

These telescopes are tracking tens of thousands of objects in space. Strange that they would ALL miss something as obvious as an alien spaceship as it passed through our solar system on the way to earth.

I suppose the counterargument is that they have cloaking devices.

@Aedes,

Aedes wrote:

So with all these poor academicians up there at 14,000 feet trying to discover something interesting to become famous, using the best technology we have, why is it that the footage of flying saucers comes from people on the ground using a camcorder they picked up at Best Buy?

UFO RESEARCH QUEENSLAND | ARTICLES -

Quote:

About 6% of the population has had one or more sightings of UFO's.

Quote:

The level of public acceptance is probably about 90% of the population.

Now consider what xris just said, the fact there 6,759,406,059 people in the world, and compare this to telescopes, now, our eyes are always viewing things around us, except when we sleep obviously, 6% of people in Queensland Australia have actually witnessed UFO's, so imagine what the chances of a telescope capturing one would be. Do any record continuous video, if they can record at all (serious question, my telescope knowledge is minimal)?

EDIT:

Aedes wrote:

I suppose the counterargument is that they have cloaking devices.

Well yes, that would be the main reason, can any of these telescopes see into the lower light spectrum? After hearing a theory which tries to explain how these crafts are highly quantized, and existing in high frequencies wave-states, it makes a lot of sense as to how they can change this wave-state, and suddenly become visible to the human eye as they enter the visible light spectrum. He suggests that they exist in high frequency wave-states most of the time, which makes night vision cameras (the right type) ideal for capturing these crafts.

@GHOST phil,

GHOST;47597 wrote:

can any of these telescopes see into the lower light spectrum?

Of course they can. There are infrared (> 700 nm), ultraviolet (< 320 nm), multiwavelength, and radio telescopes for microwaves and other forms of electromagnetic radiation.

Infrared astronomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ultraviolet astronomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Radio telescope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Aedes,

Right, right, I was watching this show about the radio telescope today, or one of them, and it was showing how they kept the thing parabolic when they tilted it, using all these little, separate plates that could be hydraulically adjusted. I think that was the gist of it. You make probably the best point available: "why does none of our highly advanced technology not pick any of these things up", and I suppose I have to go back to what I just said, and introduce the probability of them actually capturing one, which would be extremely slim, and I forgot to add one point, a lot, if not most of it, is operated by the Government, and they possibly have captured them before, I can't really say, but, the possibility still does remain: they have some way of cloaking themselves from this sort of technology

@GHOST phil,

GHOST;47601 wrote:

a lot, if not most of it, is operated by the Government

That's simply not true. Only one telescope on Mauna Kea is operated independently by the US government, and Mauna Kea has the highest concentration of telescopes in one place on earth. Virtually all major telescopes are operated by universities. They're usually owned by one university and they rent out time to researchers from other universities, and for the most part they aren't even funded by the government. The only thing that may be owned by the government is the land that the telescopes are built on, but the land is leased to whoever wants to build a telescope there.

Mauna Kea Observatory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Aedes,

Aedes wrote:

That's simply not true. The government doesn't operate any of the telescopes on Mauna Kea, and that's the highest concentration of telescopes in one place on earth. Virtually all major telescopes are operated by universities. They're usually owned by one university and they rent out time to researchers from other universities, and for the most part they aren't even funded by the government. The only thing that may be owned by the government is the land that the telescopes are built on, but the land is leased to whoever wants to build a telescope there.

OK, fair enough, you seem to know your stuff on telescopes...:surrender: I just assumed the Government would be big players in the telescope community.

@GHOST phil,

I know more now, I revised my statement after you quoted it -- NASA operates one IR telescope on Mauna Kea.

I guess the point is that with CalTech, UCLA, and many independent nations operating telescopes, you have to theorize that all these other agencies have been unable to corroborate the government findings, or that the government themselves have never found anything. Because something as enormous as discovering an alien ship would not stay a secret for more than 2 seconds if a grad student from CalTech found it up there.

@Aedes,

Aedes wrote:

I know more now, I revised my statement after you quoted it -- NASA operates one IR telescope on Mauna Kea.

I guess the point is that with CalTech, UCLA, and many independent nations operating telescopes, you have to theorize that all these other agencies have been unable to corroborate the government findings, or that the government themselves have never found anything. Because something as enormous as discovering an alien ship would not stay a secret for more than 2 seconds if a grad student from CalTech found it up there.

Hahahaha. That is so true. The cell phone would be texting everyone they know and on the phone with CNN in about 2 seconds.

@GHOST phil,

Well, it's very late here, so I'll talk tomorrow, I can't leave you all with some controversial material to ponder over, but I suggest looking at the text version testimonies I recently posted if you haven't yet. Smile

Aedes wrote:

I know more now, I revised my statement after you quoted it -- NASA operates one IR telescope on Mauna Kea.

I guess the point is that with CalTech, UCLA, and many independent nations operating telescopes, you have to theorize that all these other agencies have been unable to corroborate the government findings, or that the government themselves have never found anything. Because something as enormous as discovering an alien ship would not stay a secret for more than 2 seconds if a grad student from CalTech found it up there.

True, but maybe they do see them (when they are lucky enough, if they ever have been) and just assume it's some sort of dust, debris, or unwanted noise, often like what they look like in NASA footage, so they just disregard anything of the type. They could also assume it will just bring unwanted skepticism and mockery their way, when they can't really prove anyway, that these things are really UFO's.

@xris,

xris wrote:

Joe this Richard Hoagland is a wind bag ,what he claims about the face on mars is hog wash. This where i become annoyed that every dam thing that is claimed about NASA the governments , free power and all the other razzmatazz detracts from the real honest stories. I think those who push these extreme views are the real conspirators they are the ones who are stopping the real truth from being explored.

Hey Xris

Maybe. But your response is really lacking. Seems lazy also. Take some time to filter the information. I dont totally disagree with your stance on very bold claims, but you seem to say Bah-hum-bug, and leave it at that. I would think that a guy claiming this much information, atleast dictates some reflection. Whatever that may be.

peace

@GHOST phil,

Considering that the number of independent and academic researchers dwarfs that of NASA, they have far more money in aggregate, and they have access to the same technology as NASA, I doubt that. Scientists are trained to recognize anomalies, so things like a disproportionate velocity for mass, nongravitational locomotion, or anomalous shape and composition would attract attention.

@Pusyphus,

This thread tends to get way off topic very quickly. Ghost, since this is your thread, you have the responsibility of sticking to your OP. If you entertain these pointless exchanges about whether or not aliens are here, then you increase the chances that this thread will be closed.

I'd like to see you respond to this post (e.g. What might happen when a new life form stumbles upon a planet that appears to be populated already?)

Pusyphus wrote:

Scientists have the same information as anyone else. So far, there haven't been too many explanations proposed. If there are others, I'd love to hear them. But, what we have is:

[INDENT]1. They're here because they are curious - very unlikely because of the assumptions that anyone would undoubtedly make about the ramifications of their conspicuousness. What would be more likely is that many separate ET civilizations have stumbled upon earth in the past, and have opted to move on for some reason. What could that reason be? There is an indication though, based on the enormous land sketches in South America, that life tends to "evolve" into distinct categories (i.e. arthropods, bipeds, winged creatures, etc.).

2. They're here for "scientific" study - simply not realistic, since the fair assumption is that they would already know what results to expect. It's just too pointless.

3. They control the earth for their gain - most likely, because we see evidence that intelligent beings tend to do that all the time.
[/INDENT]Anything else?

Also Ghost, play devil's advocate and do your best to invent a military strategy for hoaxing the idea of alien "visitors" so at least it looks like you are considering the realistic, if not fabricated, objections...

@Icon,

IF we admit they could exist and they are if we suppose arriving from a distant galaxy at light speed do you think they might just have the ability to stop inside the earth atmosphere where telescopes are not focused. This silly nit picking about where they come from and a oh ye i bet this or that.If we are dealing with aliens we cant restrict their activity to our understanding .We each have to say with the mountain of evidence is there something to consider or are we constantly being lied to by these who make these claims..We have been shown documented high profile witnesses but it has been ignored by the majority and then suddenly telescopes have had the effect of bringing out the usual silent majority.

Why they might be here..They are us from the future observing our pathetic past.They may be from another dimension curios sightseers.The big ones are the cruise ships and the small ones ferry boats to observe us up close.The tourist you might see in huddled groups that dont like you joining their party are really aliens on a cruise ."Danger cruises" for the adventurous tourist come visit the earth no holiday insurance available..next cruise leaving alpha ventura in six yakdays.

MOD Note: Please refrain from double posting - Posts merged!

I see the ministry of defence is monitoring our conversation..sorry but i missed one after i had posted..it can happen you know..

@xris,

xris wrote:

IF we admit they could exist and they are if we suppose arriving from a distant galaxy at light speed do you think they might just have the ability to stop inside the earth atmosphere where telescopes are not focused. This silly nit picking about where they come from and a oh ye i bet this or that.If we are dealing with aliens we cant restrict their activity to our understanding .We each have to say with the mountain of evidence is there something to consider or are we constantly being lied to by these who make these claims..We have been shown documented high profile witnesses but it has been ignored by the majority and then suddenly telescopes have had the effect of bringing out the usual silent majority.

Why they might be here..They are us from the future observing our pathetic past.They may be from another dimension curios sightseers.The big ones are the cruise ships and the small ones ferry boats to observe us up close.The tourist you might see in huddled groups that dont like you joining their party are really aliens on a cruise ."Danger cruises" for the adventurous tourist come visit the earth no holiday insurance available..next cruise leaving alpha ventura in six yakdays.

MOD Note: Please refrain from double posting - Posts merged!

Danger cruises...that's pretty good. Unfortunately, it's rather unrealistic. We can invent all sorts of imaginary dimensions and capabilities, but there is no tangible foundation for any of that. For now, we're talking about universal motivations, such as greed and control. Those we can verify and assign to just about any civilization, including "gods".

What I'm getting at is a way to bring this "debate" to a conclusion. See, we can't just assume these alien crafts are merely pleasure cruise ships, because it wouldn't explain why the government recognizes a need to cover it up...

@Pusyphus,

Pusyphus wrote:

This thread tends to get way off topic very quickly. Ghost, since this is your thread, you have the responsibility of sticking to your OP. If you entertain these pointless exchanges about whether or not aliens are here, then you increase the chances that this thread will be closed.

Yeah, I've tried really hard to keep it on topic, but I thought I would let us indulge in the argument, most seem so keen to bring up, I couldn't help taking part in it for a little bit, but lets get back to the matter at hand now guys.

Pusyphus wrote:

Pusyphus wrote:

1. They're here because they are curious - very unlikely because of the assumptions that anyone would undoubtedly make about the ramifications of their conspicuousness. What would be more likely is that many separate ET civilizations have stumbled upon earth in the past, and have opted to move on for some reason. What could that reason be? There is an indication though, based on the enormous land sketches in South America, that life tends to "evolve" into distinct categories (i.e. arthropods, bipeds, winged creatures, etc.).

2. They're here for "scientific" study - simply not realistic, since the fair assumption is that they would already know what results to expect. It's just too pointless.

3. They control the earth for their gain - most likely, because we see evidence that intelligent beings tend to do that all the time.

Anything else?

Also Ghost, play devil's advocate and do your best to invent a military strategy for hoaxing the idea of alien "visitors" so at least it looks like you are considering the realistic, if not fabricated, objections...

I really can't see any reason reason they would hoax something like that....the only reason I can think of still involves real Aliens: They military is injecting fake testimonies into the Disclosure Project, among other things, stating really crazy and wild things, in an attempt to make the whole thing look sketchy, unreliable and unrespectable, so that we are unable to pull any truth from all the lies, and essentially, we become unable to make sense of anything, and just throw the whole thing out.

Change "2. They're here for "scientific" study" to "2. They're here for scientific, philosophical, and spiritual study". I assume that these beings are highly advanced, so much so that they were are able to engineer our species, but they did it for a reason, will goals in mind, they still have a lot of philosophical and spiritual things to understand, especially when it comes to the development of an intelligent species from scratch, the amount of invaluable knowledge that could be gained from such a study, is enormous, and as I said before, there isn't much left to do after a billion years but play God, and learn from it.

"3. They control the earth for their gain - most likely, because we see evidence that intelligent beings tend to do that all the time." Yeah, we see our selfish, arrogant little selves trying to control Earth, and even arm space in an attempt to own it. What do you think they are attempting to gain by controlling Earth and how are they controlling it?

@GHOST phil,

GHOST wrote:

I really can't see any reason reason they would hoax something like that....the only reason I can think of still involves real Aliens: They military is injecting fake testimonies into the Disclosure Project, among other things, stating really crazy and wild things, in an attempt to make the whole thing look sketchy, unreliable and unrespectable, so that we are unable to pull any truth from all the lies, and essentially, we become unable to make sense of anything, and just throw the whole thing out.

Well, that goes back to the idea that there would be some sort of military advantage to making people think alien technology exists. I've tried to imagine some sort of realistic military advantage, and I haven't been successful. I'll try it again...Let's see, our military wants other countries to know that it's possible for such technology to exist, but only for some alien species that must be advanced beyond us by thousands of years. And oh yeah, they've decided to side with the Americans, because...Nope! I just can't do it.

Change "2. They're here for "scientific" study" to "2. They're here for scientific, philosophical, and spiritual study". I assume that these beings are highly advanced, so much so that they were are able to engineer our species, but they did it for a reason, will goals in mind, they still have a lot of philosophical and spiritual things to understand, especially when it comes to the development of an intelligent species from scratch, the amount of invaluable knowledge that could be gained from such a study, is enormous, and as I said before, there isn't much left to do after a billion years but play God, and learn from it.

Well it's about time, Ghost. :a-ok: And it only took a little over 200 posts to get a well-constructed (valid) conclusion outta ya. Since I don't have enough info available to dispute this claim, I have to admit that it's worth considering. However, for such an endeavor to be considered a controlled experiment, wouldn't it be necessary to stage the world events that we see?

If not, please explain. (IOW, wouldn't the widespread confusion over the existence of aliens, by definition, corrupt the experiment? Couldn't it be shown that you could piss just about anyone off, by coming and going as you please, without saying a word? Wouldn't they have already screwed the pooch, as it were?)

"3. They control the earth for their gain - most likely, because we see evidence that intelligent beings tend to do that all the time." Yeah, we see our selfish, arrogant little selves trying to control Earth, and even arm space in an attempt to own it. What do you think they are attempting to gain by controlling Earth and how are they controlling it?

What do I think they're trying to gain?

I dunno. Gold? Diamonds? You tell me. What do you spend your hard-earned money on?

How are they controlling it??

You have no idea...

@Pusyphus,

Pusyphus wrote:

Well, that goes back to the idea that there would be some sort of military advantage to making people think alien technology exists. I've tried to imagine some sort of realistic military advantage, and I haven't been successful. I'll try it again...Let's see, our military wants other countries to know that it's possible for such technology to exist, but only for some alien species that must be advanced beyond us by thousands of years. And oh yeah, they've decided to side with the Americans, because...Nope! I just can't do it.

Sorry, I was actually saying that the Government uses these false injections of bizarre sounding things, so the true stories lose credibility and people just throw the whole idea of Alien existence out. I actually meant, that is the only reason they would admit to Alien existence in the first place, so they can mix it with really crazy things, in an attempt to make us disregard the whole thing, and essentially, any truth they are trying to hide.

Pusyphus wrote:

Well it's about time, Ghost. :a-ok: And it only took a little over 200 posts to get a well-constructed (valid) conclusion outta ya. Since I don't have enough info available to dispute this claim, I have to admit that it's worth considering. However, for such an endeavor to be considered a controlled experiment, wouldn't it be necessary to stage the world events that we see?

If not, please explain. (IOW, wouldn't the widespread confusion over the existence of aliens, by definition, corrupt the experiment? Couldn't it be shown that you could piss just about anyone off, by coming and going as you please, without saying a word? Wouldn't they have already screwed the pooch, as it were?

Well, I would have to come to the conclusion that they are just letting the experiment flow naturally, but I would think it's almost impossible to remain completely invisible, so we do notice them. They probably don't put much effort into remaining hidden, as they might find it an extra benefit to study our thoughts, perspectives, beliefs, and arguments etc on their existence. How long will it take us to discover they really exist, what will we do and think to get to the bottom of it, how will it effect our society etc.

Pusyphus wrote:

What do I think they're trying to gain?

I dunno. Gold? Diamonds? You tell me. What do you spend your hard-earned money on?

I'm pretty sure that if they can harness free, zero-point energy for all their energy needs, and engineer an intelligent being with enough effort, they can probably turn zero-point energy into any element they please, things like money, gold, diamond, oil etc would probably be materialist ideals to them, and of no value, they only seek philosophical, metaphysical, and spiritual understanding.

@GHOST phil,

Is this a self generating perpetual comic book scenario conversation.Have you two actually considered what you are proposing. I thought common sense would be your first consideration in your pondering but left alone it becomes wilder and wilder.This subject ive decided is not worth persuing, on one side we have scoffers on the other we have true believers, even my joke comments are taken seriously.Its a shame but in reality i did not expect anything else.

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