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"There are many paths to God. I hope yours will not be too difficult.." -- Ben Hur, the movie

Greetings to all...

At least one person has asked me about my experience, and I suspect that I will be asked again, so I'd like to take the opportunity to tell about my experience discovering God.

To begin, I was a atheist of 17 years when this happened. I've spent, literally, years debating with theists of every flavor, and have studied most religions extensively in order to be able to debate with people. I am a keen student of logic and remain so to this day.

To cut to the chase, I have been through quite a difficult life but over the past year I've been strugging with the concept of humility, which is something I need more of. My battles with others make me quite arrogant and I came to think of myself as intellectually superior to most others. Yet, there has always been a emptiness inside me which neither religion nor philosophy could fill. Even on the brink of Nihilism, I still felt that something was missing from my life.

I came to believe that altruism and humility were things that I needed to practice. This was the beginning of opening my heart to others and with it came the realization that I did not know everything - and still had (and still have) a great deal to learn. However, it allowed me to retire the bitter, angry, cynical side that I'd maintained for so long.

Even as an atheist, I used to pray. My prayer was this: "God, if there is a god, show me a sign that you exist......but let me keep my self intact." -- I wanted to believe in God (whatever "God" is) but did not want to give up myself to it.

I have met many people (who were not religious) but whose lives had been changed in a miraculous way. I knew they were just like me and had no more power than I did. So where did the power come from?

I was pondering this when I suddenly decided to try asking God to help me. I prayed, "God, if there is a god, I'm willing to do your will and accept your guidance in my life. If you can help me, I will do your will." -- I did this in complete honesty and sincereity.

That moment I physically and mentally felt something: something came into me and I felt a power and peace like I have never felt before. I felt a new sense of purpose and direction. And for the first time in my life, I knew that I was not alone and would never be alone again. It was as real and authentic as jumping into a pool or feeling a cool wind on your face.

I believe that the key to my experience was a few things:

1) I had already started to practice humility; recently I had forgiven someone who had done some really ****ty things to me. So my heart was open instead of closed.

2) I genuinely asked God to help me and guide me.

3) I held nothing back for myself. I completely gave myself to God.

When I did all of this, God was right there, and I realized that for me had always been with me; I was simply not ready to see it.

At the risk of being "emo", this song best captures the moment that I discovered God:

YouTube - VNV Nation - Standing

"A stranger here is born it seems,
waking wonders deep in me.
If nothing's ventured, nothing's gained
So I must seize the day..

And biding time, so hard I pray, that this moment lasts forever.
And will the world stay standing still at least for me.
Through my eyes stare into me, I bear me heart for all to see,
With my face turned to the sun, there ever standing still..."

That pretty much sums it up.

I don't know what God is. I don't conceptualize God as female or male, nor as depicted by any religion. What I do know is that since that day, I have had insight, peace, hope, and true serenity in my life. That's not to say that I'm walking around like I'm baked (stoned) all day long; life is still a huge challenge. But I have a power that I definitely feel helps me and guides me.

I know nothing about creationism; I have no concerns about any possible "afterlife". Neither of these things matter to me in the slightest. I just do the best job in this reality that I can. And as I trust God, I find that God teaches me lessons and helps me to grow.

@OctoberMist,

Although I know little about your specific experiences, I can relate to you on terms of having 'difficulty' in life, and little guidance; a sort of insecurity induced by something missing.
I would like to take this opportunity to say 'well done' and congratulations for your revelation-of-sorts. You must be thankful to find hope in your life.

As an agnostic-theist, like I previously mentioned elsewhere, I find it hard to accept God, in a way. I tell myself that I believe in God; even that I know that there is a God, but cannot accept it, due to the way that this world is going. I hope you agree that this is a challenge.
Still, what you said about humility is absolutely correct. Although many people do not like it, we are all equal, and have to accept that we can be wrong sometimes. We are, after all, only human. Also, it is an important trait to prove that we are moral, as morals, in my eyes, show a lot about who we truly are.

@OctoberMist,

I believe that regardeless of our view of god its important to know that it is merely a helper, the outcome of our life is shaped by our will only.

@manored,

So why do you think you had a revelation and others have not? are you special?

@OctoberMist,

OctoberMist wrote:

"There are many paths to God. I hope yours will not be too difficult.." -- Ben Hur, the movie

Greetings to all...

At least one person has asked me about my experience, and I suspect that I will be asked again, so I'd like to take the opportunity to tell about my experience discovering God.

To begin, I was a atheist of 17 years when this happened. I've spent, literally, years debating with theists of every flavor, and have studied most religions extensively in order to be able to debate with people. I am a keen student of logic and remain so to this day.

To cut to the chase, I have been through quite a difficult life but over the past year I've been strugging with the concept of humility, which is something I need more of. My battles with others make me quite arrogant and I came to think of myself as intellectually superior to most others. Yet, there has always been a emptiness inside me which neither religion nor philosophy could fill. Even on the brink of Nihilism, I still felt that something was missing from my life.

I came to believe that altruism and humility were things that I needed to practice. This was the beginning of opening my heart to others and with it came the realization that I did not know everything - and still had (and still have) a great deal to learn. However, it allowed me to retire the bitter, angry, cynical side that I'd maintained for so long.

Even as an atheist, I used to pray. My prayer was this: "God, if there is a god, show me a sign that you exist......but let me keep my self intact." -- I wanted to believe in God (whatever "God" is) but did not want to give up myself to it.

I have met many people (who were not religious) but whose lives had been changed in a miraculous way. I knew they were just like me and had no more power than I did. So where did the power come from?

I was pondering this when I suddenly decided to try asking God to help me. I prayed, "God, if there is a god, I'm willing to do your will and accept your guidance in my life. If you can help me, I will do your will." -- I did this in complete honesty and sincereity.

That moment I physically and mentally felt something: something came into me and I felt a power and peace like I have never felt before. I felt a new sense of purpose and direction. And for the first time in my life, I knew that I was not alone and would never be alone again. It was as real and authentic as jumping into a pool or feeling a cool wind on your face.

I believe that the key to my experience was a few things:

1) I had already started to practice humility; recently I had forgiven someone who had done some really ****ty things to me. So my heart was open instead of closed.

2) I genuinely asked God to help me and guide me.

3) I held nothing back for myself. I completely gave myself to God.

When I did all of this, God was right there, and I realized that for me had always been with me; I was simply not ready to see it.

At the risk of being "emo", this song best captures the moment that I discovered God:

YouTube - VNV Nation - Standing

"A stranger here is born it seems,
waking wonders deep in me.
If nothing's ventured, nothing's gained
So I must seize the day..

And biding time, so hard I pray, that this moment lasts forever.
And will the world stay standing still at least for me.
Through my eyes stare into me, I bear me heart for all to see,
With my face turned to the sun, there ever standing still..."

That pretty much sums it up.

I don't know what God is. I don't conceptualize God as female or male, nor as depicted by any religion. What I do know is that since that day, I have had insight, peace, hope, and true serenity in my life. That's not to say that I'm walking around like I'm baked (stoned) all day long; life is still a huge challenge. But I have a power that I definitely feel helps me and guides me.

I know nothing about creationism; I have no concerns about any possible "afterlife". Neither of these things matter to me in the slightest. I just do the best job in this reality that I can. And as I trust God, I find that God teaches me lessons and helps me to grow.

Nice post my friend. thanks. When did you have this "revelation? As Xris ask's, what makes you so special, if you don't mind, I would like to offer my opinion. It's a matter of trust. Most simply don't understand that. The "I" is the conflict. It is not a "surrendering", it is a peace that enables you to be a better you without a whole hell of lot of thought behind it. When the thoughts are needed, they will arrive right on schedule without any effort on your part. When you "need" to know something, you will hear it or see it or read it and it will register. As a matter of a fact, when I notice something that logs in, I don't even question it as I often laugh wondering where that is going to "come in handy. Ha. That is the divine connnection. If you think it is going to interfere with what you think and are afraid of that, you build a wall. Not being afraid is the key and letting go of self and what you want. I promise you, you have no clue to what you want until the mind at ease and it releases the fear that is so very pervasive in the world we live in. Leave it alone and you will be amazed at how well it functions. It will blow you away.

I am sure Octobermist will agree, this is hard to explain. You just have to experience it yourself. When the time is right it will happen. And you want it to happen, I assure you.

Again, nice post
William

@xris,

xris wrote:

So why do you think you had a revelation and others have not? are you special?

Its just a matter of time.
We all have our turn to be special.
Be patient.
Ask and ye shall recieve.

@Joshy phil,

Joshy said:

Quote:

Although I know little about your specific experiences, I can relate to you on terms of having 'difficulty' in life, and little guidance; a sort of insecurity induced by something missing.

Aye, I think the world is full of people like this.

Quote:

I would like to take this opportunity to say 'well done' and congratulations for your revelation-of-sorts. You must be thankful to find hope in your life.

Thank you for that, Joshy. And, yes, I am indeed thankful to have this new vision of hope and love in my life. It has changed my world 100%.

Quote:

As an agnostic-theist, like I previously mentioned elsewhere, I find it hard to accept God, in a way. I tell myself that I believe in God; even that I know that there is a God, but cannot accept it, due to the way that this world is going. I hope you agree that this is a challenge.

I understand where you're coming from. I hope this doesn't sound improper, but I used to see things that way as well. The way that I interpret it is this:

The world is not a reflection of God; it is a reflection of itself. Throughout history, the world has always had deep conflicts, injustices, irrational prejudices, etc. That is the way of the world on its own.

Yet, it's easy to focus on all that is going wrong in the world and not see all the things that are working well and the good things that are happening.

However, I would speculate that one of the primary reasons the world has so many problems is a lack of spirituality. We are taught that so many of the material things in the world have the highest importance eg. money, social class, possessions, power, reputation, etc. But these things are all fleeting and, ultimately, meaningless. I am reminded of the poem Ozymandias by Percy Bysshe Shelley:

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: "Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
`My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.

The works of the social and power constucts of this world are fleeting. However, we are taught (primarily by Western society) that they are everything. So instead of trying to develop healthy relationships with ourselves, our peers, and develop a sense of spirituality, we tend to focus instead on personal gain. Another quote comes to mind:

"Trying to satisfy one's self with possessions is like trying to put out a fire with straw." -- Chinese Proverb.

When I personally look upon the world, I see people struggling under the weight of impossible and irrelevant goals, trying so hard to 'fit in' instead of learning about themselves objectively and trying to deepen their hearts with love, compassion, and inner strength.

I think the world and its workings are more like big children playing games that they don't understand. This doesn't detract my personal vision or relationship with God; it serves to strengthen it.

Quote:

Still, what you said about humility is absolutely correct. Although many people do not like it, we are all equal, and have to accept that we can be wrong sometimes. We are, after all, only human. Also, it is an important trait to prove that we are moral, as morals, in my eyes, show a lot about who we truly are.

Thank you for saying so. I tend to think so as well: we are all one people, no matter how different we look or what society we are from. IMHO, no one can claim superiority over anyone by any objective criteria. Certainly some of us may have more experiece than others, but that doesn't change our inherent worth as human beings.

@xris,

xris said:

Quote:

So why do you think you had a revelation and others have not?

I'm confused by your question; many hundreds of thousands of others all across the world have had similar experiences.

Mine is by no means unique.

Quote:

are you special?

Not particularly as far as I can tell.

I believe that anybody who openly and honestly desires to know God is capable of doing so. In my case, I looked for God for over 20 years before I discovered God. I believe that God was waiting for me to make certain adjustments to my heart and my ethics before revealing itself. I also think that God was waiting for me to ask with full surrender.

@William,

William said:

Quote:

Nice post my friend. thanks.

Thank you, Sir. Smile

Quote:

Not being afraid is the key and letting go of self and what you want. I promise you, you have no clue to what you want until the mind at ease and it releases the fear that is so very pervasive in the world we live in. Leave it alone and you will be amazed at how well it functions. It will blow you away.

I think that's a huge part of it: letting go of fear. And to be more specific, letting go of the fear of giving up the self. We have often been taught that the self is the ultimate thing, when it's really not. I think many more would have a spiritual awakening except for fear of letting go of all the self-based tools they have grown accustomed to using; I certainly was!

However, when I let go of my 'old way of doing things', I was quite amazing how well the new way worked.

@manored,

manored said:

Quote:

I believe that regardeless of our view of god its important to know that it is merely a helper, the outcome of our life is shaped by our will only.

That may be true for you, but it's not true for me. The outcome of my life is shaped by both my will and my adherence to the will of God.

@Poseidon,

Poseidon wrote:

Its just a matter of time.
We all have our turn to be special.
Be patient.
Ask and ye shall recieve.

I was a i thought for many ears a devout christian with a regular attempts at asking gods guidance and illumination..i then realised my desire for a benevolent god was an act of desire rather than the truth..now i have been a christian for 35 years and an agnostic for nearly as long..now dont you think its time for my lightning bolt ?? are you special i ask you again why do the majority of people who ask never even receive an aknowledgement but you get the works :perplexed:

@OctoberMist,

OctoberMist wrote:

However, I would speculate that one of the primary reasons the world has so many problems is a lack of spirituality. We are taught that so many of the material things in the world have the highest importance eg. money, social class, possessions, power, reputation, etc. But these things are all fleeting and, ultimately, meaningless.

The irony I always find in the value of material objects is that they are only 'valuable' because humans believe they are. We have, over time, created a system where people can be better than others, dependant on what they possess.
Often, I find, those who are at the top; who have all the money and power, are those who are so shallow when it comes to 'moral values'. No longer do human values come from who you are, but rather what you are.

@OctoberMist,

OctoberMist wrote:

manored said:

That may be true for you, but it's not true for me. The outcome of my life is shaped by both my will and my adherence to the will of God.

If you don't mind me adding a thought here. In the beginning it is "you and He combined" as you have noted, yet that still implies a separation which is absolutely accurate until you realize it is all you as you close gap to that separation and become to understand your oneness with God. We are all a part of that "God". We are His "instruments" for whatever reason we will know as grow. That's what our life is all about. The future is what we design in conjunction with that "divine" cooperation in each other. One truly fascinating read is Scott Adams short novelette "God's Debris". You can read it on line. It takes about an hour. It is the notion that God, on a lark decided to "blow Himself up" (the big bang) and put Himself back together again. Ha. Now of course an omnipotent God could easily do that. It ties a lot of loose ends for me. I would like to know what you think if you care to read it.

William

@OctoberMist,

OctoberMist wrote:

manored said: That may be true for you, but it's not true for me. The outcome of my life is shaped by both my will and my adherence to the will of God.

If it is your will to serve him, his will is your will.

The important point tough is that if something goes wrong in your life, dont fall in the trap of blaming something other than yourself.

xris wrote:

I was a i thought for many ears a devout christian with a regular attempts at asking gods guidance and illumination..i then realised my desire for a benevolent god was an act of desire rather than the truth..now i have been a christian for 35 years and an agnostic for nearly as long..now dont you think its time for my lightning bolt ?? are you special i ask you again why do the majority of people who ask never even receive an aknowledgement but you get the works :perplexed:

Dont wait for the meaning of life to knock into your door, there is no absolute answer so you have to find your own.

For example I decided that nothing can force me to fell sad if I dont want, and that keeps me very happy.

@manored,

I dont wait for anything and i certainly aint waiting for god to knock on my door...This sublime benevolent god has got to show his worth to more deserving souls than mine before he helps my soul..I find this middle class god so depressing in his seclusion..in his single minded attempt at converting and helping the comfortable educated minority....Go to Africa save those children use all your energy your compassion your worth on them..

@OctoberMist,

God is a subjective thing, it acts in the mind of those who believe on him, whatever be the form of him they believe, not in the world.

Also, benevolence is relative. If children stop dying on Africa there will be a super-population and therefore war, and to prevent war population control will be necessary, what some people find good, others bad and others even prefer war over it. Does this means children dying is good? depends of how we solve it.

@manored,

Hey OctoberMist,
Hey manored,

OctoberMist wrote:

I was pondering this when I suddenly decided to try asking God to help me. I prayed, "God, if there is a god, I'm willing to do your will and accept your guidance in my life. If you can help me, I will do your will." -- I did this in complete honesty and sincereity.

That moment I physically and mentally felt something: something came into me and I felt a power and peace like I have never felt before. I felt a new sense of purpose and direction. And for the first time in my life, I knew that I was not alone and would never be alone again. It was as real and authentic as jumping into a pool or feeling a cool wind on your face.

I am glad to hear that you experienced this. I myself feel that I had a similar experience.

Quote:

I believe that the key to my experience was a few things:

1) I had already started to practice humility; recently I had forgiven someone who had done some really ****ty things to me. So my heart was open instead of closed.

2) I genuinely asked God to help me and guide me.

3) I held nothing back for myself. I completely gave myself to God.

When I did all of this, God was right there, and I realized that for me had always been with me; I was simply not ready to see it.

The bit in bold is a key part in this discussion. We naturally as one dimensional individuals perceive that "I" am in here, and "God" is out there, despite the fact that God is omnispresent. They distance themselves from God, not realising that God is omnipresent, and therefore they are a part of God too. Therefore they are only distancing themselves from... themselves. Ironic.
Anyway...
The kingdom of God that Yeshua so famously described is not a literal place; it's a spiritual one. In short, the kingdom of God is within you. God exists where you exist, where everyone else exists and where everything else exists. If you accept this, your soul [ your consciousness towards God] becomes God's domain.God will always be accessible through your soul.

Quote:

I don't know what God is. I don't conceptualize God as female or male, nor as depicted by any religion. What I do know is that since that day, I have had insight, peace, hope, and true serenity in my life. That's not to say that I'm walking around like I'm baked (stoned) all day long; life is still a huge challenge. But I have a power that I definitely feel helps me and guides me.

God is not bound to form or gender. Nor time,space, or physicality for that matter.

When I experienced a very similar experience, God guided me onto the spiritual path. What I realize now, is that God intents for me to walk the spiritual path; a task that few have managed and a task that will require all that I am.

This is what God pointed you in the direction of my friend ; the spiritual path. The path to accessing God through the soul. The soul being our own consciousness of God's reality.
On the path you start to appreciate and encorperate love into everything that you do. You feel more humble, more caring, more spiritual. Basically, you become what Jesus told you to do : "You are the light of the world".
What you went through [ your experience ] is known as "The epiphany"; a stage of introduction into the spiritual path. To receive one is a direct implication from God that God wants you to join the spiritual path, and therefore, become one with God's reality.

This can be a little confusing, especially to those who aren't on the path, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Quote:

I know nothing about creationism; I have no concerns about any possible "afterlife". Neither of these things matter to me in the slightest. I just do the best job in this reality that I can. And as I trust God, I find that God teaches me lessons and helps me to grow.

Indeed. As Jesus once said "Do not worry about tomorrow"; yesterday is gone,tomorrow is coming. The only thing you can influence is now. Your powers lie in this very moment.

ALSO: Death is a good thing, but that's a subject for a different thread I'm sure.

manored wrote:

God is a subjective thing, it acts in the mind of those who believe on him, whatever be the form of him they believe, not in the world.

"God is a subjective thing" is a very universal statement, don't you think?

God isn't subjective. God is only subjective to those stuck in duality. Seperating themselves from the understanding of God. God exists at the deeper parts of all our consciousness and no matter how evil or wicked you are/have been ; God will always be accessible if you unearth the soul. What can be more objective than that?

Quote:

Also, benevolence is relative. If children stop dying on Africa there will be a super-population and therefore war, and to prevent war population control will be necessary, what some people find good, others bad and others even prefer war over it. Does this means children dying is good? depends of how we solve it.

Now benevolence is subjective, but again, only to those stuck in duality and therefore, an unreal reality of God. At the level of the soul, one begins to feel and implement love into all that one does. Goodness and love therefore becomes a formality.
Love is stronger than hate, so therefore all the hate you feel [ which is natural ; you are human after all ] is overpowered by love. Evil's illusion begins to fade away, and the power of evil begins to shrink. What is left is nothing but love.

If only one definition of "love" exists at the level of the soul, therefore there is no subjectivity at the level of the soul, only a universal concept.

God bless.
-Thanks,Take care
James

@The light,

I think someone finding peace is great. But again i also think that this is another person saying This makes me happy so it must be fact. So many factors. Are baisic needs can eventually pull our determination.

When it comes to love, i think that release is great, but in a world where this is not the rule of the land, the battle within are selves is along with the questioning and doubt is better for everyone who continues to feel there is emptiness in the world.

@manored,

manored wrote:

God is a subjective thing, it acts in the mind of those who believe on him, whatever be the form of him they believe, not in the world.

Also, benevolence is relative. If children stop dying on Africa there will be a super-population and therefore war, and to prevent war population control will be necessary, what some people find good, others bad and others even prefer war over it. Does this means children dying is good? depends of how we solve it.

I have seen some self centred mean replies in my time but this takes the biscuit...god does not help African children because there may be an increase in population..do you know Africa is the most least densely area on the planet..that aside your response is realy discusting and puts the faith driven into realms i never thought possible ...

@The light,

The light wrote:

Hey OctoberMist,
Hey manored,

I am glad to hear that you experienced this. I myself feel that I had a similar experience.

The bit in bold is a key part in this discussion. We naturally as one dimensional individuals perceive that "I" am in here, and "God" is out there, despite the fact that God is omnispresent. They distance themselves from God, not realising that God is omnipresent, and therefore they are a part of God too. Therefore they are only distancing themselves from... themselves. Ironic.
Anyway...
The kingdom of God that Yeshua so famously described is not a literal place; it's a spiritual one. In short, the kingdom of God is within you. God exists where you exist, where everyone else exists and where everything else exists. If you accept this, your soul [ your consciousness towards God] becomes God's domain.God will always be accessible through your soul.

God is not bound to form or gender. Nor time,space, or physicality for that matter.

When I experienced a very similar experience, God guided me onto the spiritual path. What I realize now, is that God intents for me to walk the spiritual path; a task that few have managed and a task that will require all that I am.

This is what God pointed you in the direction of my friend ; the spiritual path. The path to accessing God through the soul. The soul being our own consciousness of God's reality.
On the path you start to appreciate and encorperate love into everything that you do. You feel more humble, more caring, more spiritual. Basically, you become what Jesus told you to do : "You are the light of the world".
What you went through [ your experience ] is known as "The epiphany"; a stage of introduction into the spiritual path. To receive one is a direct implication from God that God wants you to join the spiritual path, and therefore, become one with God's reality.

This can be a little confusing, especially to those who aren't on the path, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Indeed. As Jesus once said "Do not worry about tomorrow"; yesterday is gone,tomorrow is coming. The only thing you can influence is now. Your powers lie in this very moment.

ALSO: Death is a good thing, but that's a subject for a different thread I'm sure.

"God is a subjective thing" is a very universal statement, don't you think?

God isn't subjective. God is only subjective to those stuck in duality. Seperating themselves from the understanding of God. God exists at the deeper parts of all our consciousness and no matter how evil or wicked you are/have been ; God will always be accessible if you unearth the soul. What can be more objective than that?

Now benevolence is subjective, but again, only to those stuck in duality and therefore, an unreal reality of God. At the level of the soul, one begins to feel and implement love into all that one does. Goodness and love therefore becomes a formality.
Love is stronger than hate, so therefore all the hate you feel [ which is natural ; you are human after all ] is overpowered by love. Evil's illusion begins to fade away, and the power of evil begins to shrink. What is left is nothing but love.

If only one definition of "love" exists at the level of the soul, therefore there is no subjectivity at the level of the soul, only a universal concept.

God bless.
-Thanks,Take care
James

James, pardon me for venturing off topic for a second, but considering your post as to whether death was a good thing or a bad thing as you expressed your guilt, it seems you are dealing with it like gangbusters. Keep it up my friend. Your head seems to be in good working order. Nice post.:a-ok:

William

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