The problem is endemic in society it refuses to debate or even acknowledge there is problem. Comedians that find it easy to ridicule absolutely any thing and anyone, shy from the idea of making the same jokes about Islam.

Dave I know you disagree with me on this subject but what is this obscure link. I have no idea what it was about or who they are. I did try listening to it three times.

Its not exactly main stream humour that we see regularly on the box is it Dave.

Well, you didn't specify the mainstream... Strikes me that you're going to play the move the goalposts game:

"You casn't criticse Islam!"

"What about this?"

"Oh that doesn't count!"

Rubbish.

I don't really watch comedy on the telly so I can't appraise it as fully as I'd like. I did see some of Charlie Brokker's Screenwipe recently that dealt with Muslim fundamentalism - was quite cutting - but didn't end up with anyone threatened seriously as far as I know. I also saw Christopher Hitchens on Question Time being pretty frank about his negative feelings of Islam. Not comedy though...

I'm fairly certain I've seen Jimmy Carr and Frankie Boyle make muslims the targets of pretty rude jokes, and for what it's worth, there are often similar jibes on Have I Got News For You. Stewart Lee I recall made a satirical mag full of women in burkhas - having a pop at lad culture and islam at the same time. Goodness Gracious Me used to have the odd pop at Muslims and the Kashmir situation, though it's been a while since they were on the TV.

But I'm not a big comedy fan. If I were I'm sure I cou;d present lots more examples.

Oh, there's Chris Morris' jihadii comedy that is due to come out soon - I like him and I'm quite looking forward to it.

As for a comedy about Mohammed himself being made - I doubt it - but as I said in my last post lampooning the prophet does seem to invariably provoke responses I find deplorable.

Whilst I think it's unfortunate that we are in that situation it's a mere aspect of criticising Islam - not the whole.

Point being: It's easy to use Salman Rushdie and Danish cartoonists and pretend that that's what happens if you criticise or make fun of Islam, period.

Whilst those acts of violence sparked by the Satanic Verses and pics of mohammed with a bomb in his turban are awful - there are circumstances attached to those reactions that aren't attached to all critique or lampooning of Islam which does go on.

To say "people are too scared to make fun of Islam" means that you aren't looking.

You're not supporting such satire - because you deny it exists - which means people won't be so intertested in making it. Maybe if you got your head out of the sand you might make a small bit of difference - rather than ignoring what's there and then complaining about it's absence.

Did you buy the Satanic Verses, or read it? Or suggest it be made into a film? Or anything positive to promote satirising Islam? If you want to see more of something support what's out there. Then maybe there will come a day when people are moved to satirise it even further.

And, for what it's worth, it's an insult to those muslims who tolerate or even enjoy it to say there's no such satire out there.

But perhaps you'd rather just perpetrate a paranoid fantasy where "you can't say anything bad about Islam" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Look - I'll put my money where my mouth is and I'll even have a go myself...

The prophet sucks willies.

Nothing stopping me is there?

EDIT: Provided the mods don't mind, or something.

Your anonymity is your safe guard, try that in a public place.

Its not paranoia, you admit it yourself and then withdraw the admission.

Its no paranoia when death has resulted or five years of isolation. Even a countries commerce has suffered from boycott. No one dare stick their neck up too high, they may paddle but never attempt the deep end.

If you get personal and rude Dave you have lost the plot and the debate.

Sorry, I thought it was you moaning about people not being able to be satirical or rude or critical.

Now you throw the toys out of the pram over some mild heat - which you earned for yourself because you are unable to stage a debate without moving the goalposts or actually attempting to understand other's points of view.

Bit hypocritical of you, frankly.

I did not move the goalposts , if you had, had a decent shot at the goal I might have been tempted.

It seems to me that if there is unwonted hostility against Muslims, they have only themselves to blame. Case in point: that Third Secretary from Quatar's embassy in Washington, who made a sarcastic joke (I suppose he thought it was) about setting fire to his shoe when he was caught illegally smoking in the plane's bathroom. For him (a representative of his country) to joke about such a matter shows a grossness and insensitivity that comes only from training and from contempt. There is no one who thought that his action provoked an overreaction. Most people thought that simply being declared persona non grata was far to light a thing to be done to him. That kind of thing is infuriating.

Dave face it, your only playing silly games without ever answering anything of consequence. Put your willy away it has no value.

I gave you an open opportunity to prove your abuse and all you want to talk about is football. Your silly attempts at diverting the debate has been noticed. Now I will ask you one more time prove your silly childish abuse has any foundation.

You are a hypocrite and an idiot.

What a load of tosh.

"You can't say anything bad about Islam."

"Here's an example."

"That's hardly mainstream."

"OK I'll do it."

"You couldn't get away with it in public."

That is dictionary definition moving of goalposts. Eventually you'll have me admitting it's dangerous to quote from the Satanic Verses whilst wearing a t-shirt with Danish cartoons on in the middle of a Taliban training camp - that much is true.

But that isn't the be all and end all of criticising Islam.

---------- Post added 04-13-2010 at 09:56 AM ----------


I imagine somehwere that there are dumb and rude diplomats from other countries.

It's Nazi thinking really - here's a nepotistic Jew - ergo they are nepotists and we are best rid of them and, what's more, they only have themselves to blame.

Seriously - why should I think less of of, say, Salima because someone from Quatar makes a joke in questionable taste?

I mean, did people say to him they didn't think it was a subject for levity? Did he persist along the same lines afterward? Even if he was a jerk for making a, you know - JOKE - was he so insensitive as to continue in that vein when the gravity of jokes about bombs on planes and their lack of appropriateness was pointed out?

It's hardly damning of millions is it?

Why do you think anyone would want to debate with unfounded abuse, come along now Dave, why would they?

so it is ok to want to support free speech, i dont have a television anyway. and i can choose what sites to visit on the internet. but there are sometimes obvious cases of people using humor as an excuse for hurting someone-for instance that is common in ragging. humiliation is not humor. some people dont know where to draw the line.

I will lay down willingly on your rack but you ain't got the strength to pull your own willy.

That's OK - the prophet does it for me.

What challenge are you referring to exactly? As far as I see I've answered every question you've put to me - which isn't something you can claim in return.

If you don't feel I have answered stuff - maybe it's because You Are Too Stupid to entertain an argument of subtlety beyond your Daily Mail breed of balderdash.