Woman being stoned to death Islam Explain

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Alan McDougall
 
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 09:46 pm
@polpol,
polpol;134220 wrote:
Alain McD.,
I admire the people that have tried to put some sense in your head, I won't even try. I found the pictures horrofying but what horrifies me the most is people like you. You seem to be such a pathetic person, and its weird but it makes me want to add to your islamophobia just for laughs. But I'll be nice and will just try to upset you a little bit by saying that Islam is a wonderful religion that respects individual freedom and is very open to cultural diversity. The Koran is a beautiful and inspiring book full of poetry, humour and profound wisdom and Mohamet was one of the most open-minded men of his time who did a lot for women (read what he said about adultery and war widows),...and I'm not even a muslim, I just read the Koran, the Bible, The Baghavat Gita...and if I were your mother I would give you a spanking...or maybe I would have some muslims over for dinner to teachyou some basic things about life and society. Are you going to have nightmares tonight?


And if I disagree with your statements you will kill me?

http://sfcmac.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/christian_beheading.jpg
 
Dave Allen
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 02:58 am
@Alan McDougall,
Well at least it isn't fraudulent this time - though it's still a clearly sensationalist image totally divorced from context.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 04:04 am
@polpol,
polpol;134220 wrote:
Alain McD.,
I admire the people that have tried to put some sense in your head, I won't even try. I found the pictures horrofying but what horrifies me the most is people like you. You seem to be such a pathetic person, and its weird but it makes me want to add to your islamophobia just for laughs. But I'll be nice and will just try to upset you a little bit by saying that Islam is a wonderful religion that respects individual freedom and is very open to cultural diversity. The Koran is a beautiful and inspiring book full of poetry, humour and profound wisdom and Mohamet was one of the most open-minded men of his time who did a lot for women (read what he said about adultery and war widows),...and I'm not even a muslim, I just read the Koran, the Bible, The Baghavat Gita...and if I were your mother I would give you a spanking...or maybe I would have some muslims over for dinner to teachyou some basic things about life and society. Are you going to have nightmares tonight?
What concerns you about Alan's thread, the fact that they are posted or the idea that they should not be debated? Your post is insulting and smacks of censorship. If it was christian priests stoning homosexuals would you be so critical of the thread creators motives.

---------- Post added 03-02-2010 at 05:23 AM ----------

Dave Allen;134499 wrote:
Well at least it isn't fraudulent this time - though it's still a clearly sensationalist image totally divorced from context.
Dave, it is a subject many shy away from for fear of being branded islamophobic. It also a subject that many Muslims find embarrassing but when you consider the barbarity such countries such as the KSA are committing on a daily basis it should be debated without fear of insulting or of being insulted. We debate capital punishment in the west without being branded, why this aversion to debating Islamic cultural executions.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 04:26 am
@polpol,
:perplexed: To start with I do not think we can judge each-other on having sense or not. We all had different lives, but full of meaning-full things happening to us. We are all shaped differtly.

A good friend praises Allah, I celebrate Life & Chance; my Sister studies to be-come a boeddhist. In a atmosphere of Friendship we have very interesting conversations and happy meals (not McDon)

I think video's containing violance should be of the Forum. No links to sick-ness of the Mind. I thought we were here to Learn & Relax.
 
josh0335
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 04:37 am
@xris,
xris;134507 wrote:
What concerns you about Alan's thread, the fact that they are posted or the idea that they should not be debated? Your post is insulting and smacks of censorship. If it was christian priests stoning homosexuals would you be so critical of the thread creators motives.

---------- Post added 03-02-2010 at 05:23 AM ----------

Dave, it is a subject many shy away from for fear of being branded islamophobic. It also a subject that many Muslims find embarrassing but when you consider the barbarity such countries such as the KSA are committing on a daily basis it should be debated without fear of insulting or of being insulted. We debate capital punishment in the west without being branded, why this aversion to debating Islamic cultural executions.


What exactly is being debated here? That some countries commit violence against women in the name of religion? Or that this is specifically an Islamic problem? Or that Islam actually teaches these things and should be something we all resist?

The OP asked Muslims to explain themselves. When I pointed out that stoning is not taught by Islam, the response was 'so what, it still hapens in Muslim lands.' Doesn't seem to be a serious discussion.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 05:10 am
@josh0335,
I must admit the links are not exactly the way to advance a conversation but it does bring home the reality of these horrors that you admit are being committed by those claiming to act with gods authority.

Its not just Muslims that have this tendency to ignore these awful examples, its a faith driven reasoning to hope, if they ignore it , it might just go away. Roman catholics fail to criticise their leaders , Muslims have this belief that they must not criticise a brother Muslim or take sides against him. These horrendous acts are not diminishing, they are occurring more and more. It should be you that is demanding Muslims be out spoken against the extremes we see perpetrated by certain Muslims, not telling us its not to be debated.
 
Dave Allen
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 05:10 am
@xris,
xris;134507 wrote:
Dave, it is a subject many shy away from for fear of being branded islamophobic.

Whether or not a conversation on the topic of Islam's particular abuses is worth having, trying to provoke such a debate through context-free imagery, some of which is blatantly fraudulent, is something I find worthy of condemnation.

Frankly, I think the fact that Alan has tried to fuel this debate with fakery makes him a complete idiot. Whether or not he suffers intrinsic prejudice against muslims I'm not sure - but it is a weapon long employed by bigots to fabricate and diseminate demonising imagery, or illustrate articles about one thing with upsetting pictures of something else.

Now if someone wants to comment on real abuses they feel are matters of concern or guilt in the eyes of Islam - I am all ears. In fact I raised general concerns about capital punishment and it's seeming abuses in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere earlier in the thread.

But I won't be gulled into some sensationalist knee-jerk response based on a few images - some of which are obvious frauds - and I think Alan should be ashamed of himself for making a few of the visitors to this thread stooges in that manner.

---------- Post added 03-02-2010 at 06:11 AM ----------

xris;134529 wrote:
I must admit the links are not exactly the way to advance a conversation but it does bring home the reality of these horrors that you admit are being committed by those claiming to act with gods authority.

Oh for God's sake.

HOW exactly do fraudulent images - as some of the links are - bring home the reality of anything?
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 05:18 am
@Dave Allen,
They are not all fraudulent and they do show exactly what occurs when these abuses are carried out. Its more of a horror for those who are executed than any feelings that may be hurt by this exaggeration. Its Muslims that are suffering by it, so why this adverse reasoning, its anti Islamic? I don't understand.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 05:27 am
@Dave Allen,
Dave Allen;134530 wrote:
Whether or not a conversation on the topic of Islam's particular abuses is worth having, trying to provoke such a debate through context-free imagery, some of which is blatantly fraudulent, is something I find worthy of condemnation.

Frankly, I think the fact that Alan has tried to fuel this debate with fakery makes him a complete idiot. Whether or not he suffers intrinsic prejudice against muslims I'm not sure - but it is a weapon long employed by bigots to fabricate and diseminate demonising imagery, or illustrate articles about one thing with upsetting pictures of something else.

Now if someone wants to comment on real abuses they feel are matters of concern or guilt in the eyes of Islam - I am all ears. In fact I raised general concerns about capital punishment and it's seeming abuses in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere earlier in the thread.

But I won't be gulled into some sensationalist knee-jerk response based on a few images - some of which are obvious frauds - and I think Alan should be ashamed of himself for making a few of the visitors to this thread stooges in that manner.

---------- Post added 03-02-2010 at 06:11 AM ----------


Oh for God's sake.

HOW exactly do fraudulent images - as some of the links are - bring home the reality of anything?


Strong words now I am a complete idiot with an IQ of about 20 :perplexed: I can give much more about these horrendous acts done by Moslem's in the name of their god Allah.

Who the heck highjacked three airplanes and flew them into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, resulting in appalling deaths and the knock on effect all the way down the network of thousand of innocent families
 
Dave Allen
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 05:40 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;134534 wrote:
Who the heck highjacked three airplanes and flew them into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, resulting in appalling deaths and the knock on effect all the way down the network of thousand of innocent families

Finally, something really done by a certain group of muslims.

An event condemned by many people around the world, including great numbers of muslims who oppose such fanaticism and - for the record - myself.

Congratualtions on bringing up something real rather than sensationalist horsecrap.

The people attacked on 9/11 responded by killing far more people, of course, and showering Iraq with a weapon that is linked to pictures like this:

depleted uranium - Google Search

Which are also rather shocking, wouldn't you say?
 
josh0335
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 05:48 am
@xris,
xris;134529 wrote:
I must admit the links are not exactly the way to advance a conversation but it does bring home the reality of these horrors that you admit are being committed by those claiming to act with gods authority.

Its not just Muslims that have this tendency to ignore these awful examples, its a faith driven reasoning to hope, if they ignore it , it might just go away. Roman catholics fail to criticise their leaders , Muslims have this belief that they must not criticise a brother Muslim or take sides against him. These horrendous acts are not diminishing, they are occurring more and more. It should be you that is demanding Muslims be out spoken against the extremes we see perpetrated by certain Muslims, not telling us its not to be debated.


Who's telling you it shouldn't be debated? I asked you to specify exactly what we are debating here, because it just isn't clear to me. And Muslims don't have a belief that they 'must not criticise a brother Muslim or take sides against him'.

So I'll ask again, what are we debating? Do you believe there is something about the religion that encourages this kind of behaviour? I could give you a full explanation as to why stoning is completely against Quranic teachings, but I imagine this isn't what the thread is about. The argument seems to be that some Muslim governments use Islam to oppress their people. If that's the argument, then Muslims don't need to explain these actions as they are contrary to the teachings of the religion.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 06:38 am
@josh0335,
josh0335;134537 wrote:
Who's telling you it shouldn't be debated? I asked you to specify exactly what we are debating here, because it just isn't clear to me. And Muslims don't have a belief that they 'must not criticise a brother Muslim or take sides against him'.

So I'll ask again, what are we debating? Do you believe there is something about the religion that encourages this kind of behaviour? I could give you a full explanation as to why stoning is completely against Quranic teachings, but I imagine this isn't what the thread is about. The argument seems to be that some Muslim governments use Islam to oppress their people. If that's the argument, then Muslims don't need to explain these actions as they are contrary to the teachings of the religion.
I have to ask the question why do so many Muslims claim it is correct to stone adulterers to death? Its not just an academic question that has no repercussions. If it divides Islamic opinions, then it cant just be dismissed as the actions of a few rogue states. The old testament and the prophets teachings, dictate certain dogmas, certain Muslims feel they have to abide by, its for muslims to decide and its for the observer to make comments on the outcome. You may disagree with those muslims but are you loud enough and how many stand with you?
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 06:38 am
@josh0335,
Facts are that females and gays are getting killed in a coutry pretending to be Islamitic. It just reminds me of the Inquisition in Europe. I think acountry should be blind to the religions of their people.
 
xris
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 06:44 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;134543 wrote:
Facts are that females and gays are getting killed in a coutry pretending to be Islamitic. It just reminds me of the Inquisition in Europe. I think acountry should be blind to the religions of their people.
Turkey has it right in my opinion, it is secular but has a majority of Muslims. It has modified is laws to be more in keeping with reasonable 21c thinking. It can be done but it still has certain pressures from fundamentalists to revert to sharia. I am for freedom and if any dogma interferes with human rights then I will speak up whoever the culprit.
 
Alan McDougall
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 06:52 am
@Dave Allen,
Dave Allen;134536 wrote:
Finally, something really done by a certain group of muslims.

An event condemned by many people around the world, including great numbers of muslims who oppose such fanaticism and - for the record - myself.

Congratualtions on bringing up something real rather than sensationalist horsecrap.

The people attacked on 9/11 responded by killing far more people, of course, and showering Iraq with a weapon that is linked to pictures like this:

depleted uranium - Google Search

Which are also rather shocking, wouldn't you say?


You are getting close to using abusive language in your posts to, referring to my posts as Absolute Idiot and horsecrap, it you ever get to know me better you will see I never use horesecrap in my threads or debates. Cool off you rhetoric and nasty rants, many people believe exactly what I brought to this thread, namely people who profess that they are followers of Islam are doing this type of hideous depravity in these right now latter days

More,

Google Image Result for http://images30.fotki.com/v1038/photos/1/1222605/5411528/christian_beheading580opt-vi.jpg
 
Dave Allen
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:29 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;134547 wrote:
You are getting close to using abusive language in your posts to, referring to my posts as Absolute Idiot and horsecrap, it you ever get to know me better you will see I never use horesecrap in my threads or debates.

So what's the second picture you linked to about then?
 
William
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:45 am
@Alan McDougall,
You don't have to pick up a rock to throw a stone. It is easy to find reason to give credence to any such behavior but in reality there are fundamental reasons that can be arrived at if one wishes to know that. Hell, we found reason to kill our unborn; reason for men to marry men; to throw stones at those who don't think like us and even women who we blame for tempting us 'he-men' from being better men.

We have reasons for wars, plagues, diseases, etc, etc, etc and they will always exist until we understand why they exist. It has always been the assumed nature of "mankind' and that is the reason for all that has befallen us. It is not mankind, it is humankind. Hopefully one day we will understand what that is. Some cultures blame women for "weakening" them, the men who rule that culture. Is that what strength is. to prey on the weak? Hmm? Perhaps they deserve to be weakened! As it relates to man, woman can most assuredly do that and her beauty is her weapon. So it can be understood why some culture wish to "cover them up". Ha!

The problem with religion is that is it was written by, even Ruth, Esther and a lesser known Judith, by men. (That's the Judeo-Christian one) It is a one sided depiction from man's autonomous assumption of himself from his visible sinew assuming woman to be of lesser "stuff". Hummph! (On an aside I can find no reason why those two belief structures are within the covers of one tome? Go figure? Hmm? They sure as hell don't see "eye to eye" or "I" to "I".) It could be they were written by the same source to cause conflict and then offer and profit from solutions? Hmmm? I can't believe I said that. I will have to give that more thought? Ha, like I say, my mind has a mind of it own. It amazes me sometimes what it comes up with, ha!

Me for one think woman should be worshiped. Not in what can be defined in a religious sense, but it is obvious we, men, do adore them. Well, most men anyway. Can there be adoration without respect. No, that's what lust is. For man lust is a consequence for woman it is a weapon resulting in both losing and any sense of what each represent in the grand nature of that wondrous relationship and what can be understood in it purest definition and end the battle that ensues. You know, the battle of the sexes that is now even more complicated in the manifestation of other genders that are different from the male female universal paradigm.

Hopefully this will shed a little light on why such occurrences happen.

William
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:46 am
@Dave Allen,
Dave Allen;134050 wrote:
To take part in the thread Ken.

Perhaps you should read it again, or something.


I meant the point of your post. It cannot be that the point of your post was to write the post, was it?
 
josh0335
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 07:51 am
@kennethamy,
xris;134542 wrote:
I have to ask the question why do so many Muslims claim it is correct to stone adulterers to death?


Because a certain brand of Islam, funded by Saudi oil money, is becoming more and more widespread. If you asked a Muslim of the older generation whether stoning is allowed, you would most likely get a resounding no. But ask a young Muslim in the UK, and you may very well get a confident yes. Why? Because the parents of these younger Muslims didn't learn Islam from internet websites and free pamphlets funded by Saudi Arabia, whereas their children do. This is something you have to acknowledge if you are serious about why people believe the things they do.

Quote:
Its not just an academic question that has no repercussions. If it divides Islamic opinions, then it cant just be dismissed as the actions of a few rogue states.
But it is though. The majority of Muslim countries don't stone anyone.

Quote:
The old testament and the prophets teachings, dictate certain dogmas, certain Muslims feel they have to abide by, its for muslims to decide and its for the observer to make comments on the outcome. You may disagree with those muslims but are you loud enough and how many stand with you?
The majority stand with me because the majority do not stone people.

xris;134544 wrote:
Turkey has it right in my opinion, it is secular but has a majority of Muslims. It has modified is laws to be more in keeping with reasonable 21c thinking. It can be done but it still has certain pressures from fundamentalists to revert to sharia. I am for freedom and if any dogma interferes with human rights then I will speak up whoever the culprit.


Turkey has it completely wrong. If you read up on how secularism was shoved down the throats of the people after the fall of the Ottomans you wouldn't be saying this. Muslims have every right to want shariah. But shariah isn't what you think it is.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2010 08:02 am
@josh0335,
josh0335;134560 wrote:
Because a certain brand of Islam, funded by Saudi oil money, is becoming more and more widespread. If you asked a Muslim of the older generation whether stoning is allowed, you would most likely get a resounding no. But ask a young Muslim in the UK, and you may very well get a confident yes. Why? Because the parents of these younger Muslims didn't learn Islam from internet websites and free pamphlets funded by Saudi Arabia, whereas their children do. This is something you have to acknowledge if you are serious about why people believe the things they do.

But it is though. The majority of Muslim countries don't stone anyone.

The majority stand with me because the majority do not stone people.



Turkey has it completely wrong. If you read up on how secularism was shoved down the throats of the people after the fall of the Ottomans you wouldn't be saying this. Muslims have every right to want shariah. But shariah isn't what you think it is.


It is true that some Muslim countries do not have stoning. And it is also true that most Muslims do not stone anyone. On the other hand, it is also true that only Muslim countries stone people, and that only Muslims stone people. And it is also true that only shariah allows for stoning.
 
 

 
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