Why do you not?

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sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 07:44 pm
@north,
north;153340 wrote:
in the end your suicide gains nothing , nothing at all

But what if one needs to be free of purchase?
What if one no longer wishes to be burdened with gain?
What if there was only one way to loose and lose?
What if one only wishes to be nothing?
What of the wish to not exist?
Can any soul ever have the right to choose the nothingness?
 
north
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 08:01 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;153343 wrote:
But what if one needs to be free of purchase?
What if one no longer wishes to be burdened with gain?
What if there was only one way to loose and lose?
What if one only wishes to be nothing?
What of the wish to not exist?
Can any soul ever have the right to choose the nothingness?


your attitude is the key toward all of the above
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 08:57 pm
@north,
north;153352 wrote:
your attitude is the key toward all of the above

Is this a compliment or a condemnation? please expand?
 
north
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 09:04 pm
@sometime sun,
Quote:
Originally Posted by north http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
your attitude is the key toward all of the above



sometime sun;153372 wrote:
Is this a compliment or a condemnation? please expand?


it is neither

it is attitude and the ability to change yourself which is the key
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 09:16 pm
@north,
north;153377 wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by north http://www.philosophyforum.com/images/PHBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif
your attitude is the key toward all of the above





it is neither

it is attitude and the ability to change yourself which is the key

So you at least admit i need change something?
What is it about my percieved attitude that needs changing?
What abilities do i lack?
Or what am i in possession of?
 
north
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 09:24 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;153383 wrote:
So you at least admit i need change something?
What is it about my percieved attitude that needs changing?
What abilities do i lack?
Or what am i in possession of?


Attitude , attitude , attitude

the wrong attitude
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 09:47 pm
@north,
north;153389 wrote:
Attitude , attitude , attitude

the wrong attitude

One last time, what is wrong?
At least give me the chance to defend my possition.
I am not even sure you have read me correctly.
Give me any definition please.
 
north
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 09:55 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;153404 wrote:
One last time, what is wrong?


your attitude to your being

Quote:
At least give me the chance to defend my possition.


of course always

Quote:
I am not even sure you have read me correctly.


fair enough , perhaps not


Quote:
Give me any definition please.


of ? define this definition of and I will
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 10:02 pm
@north,
north;153409 wrote:
your attitude to your being

To my being or to yours?
Who said this was anything to do with my being?
Just that it is an aspect of some peoples being.
We must not just take ourselves into account.


north;153409 wrote:

of course always

When always?

north;153409 wrote:

fair enough , perhaps not

So now tell me what you doubt?


north;153409 wrote:

of ? define this definition of and I will

Of? of what of? i am confused?
please elabourate.
What 'of' did i use that you want me to define?
 
north
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 10:24 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;153411 wrote:
To my being or to yours?
Who said this was anything to do with my being?
Just that it is an aspect of some peoples being.
We must not just take ourselves into account.



When always?


So now tell me what you doubt?



Of? of what of? i am confused?
please elabourate.
What 'of' did i use that you want me to define?


attitude , attitude
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 10:28 pm
@north,
north;153425 wrote:
attitude , attitude

For heavens sake!
 
north
 
Reply Sat 17 Apr, 2010 10:30 pm
@sometime sun,
sometime sun;153427 wrote:
For heavens sake!


attitude

towards the self and your own being , Humanity
 
wayne
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 12:18 am
@sometime sun,
I'm afraid I might miss something.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 12:54 am
@HexHammer,
My biggest fear would be to reincarnate and have to live again... I do not believe Death is the End of existence of the Soul. I believe there are certain things to be learned in (every) Life. Not ending it might be the biggest lesson to learn.

I follow the debates about euthanasia with great interest. If suffering becomes un-bearable I think it's good, but strictly on medical grounds. If people suffer otherwise society has a duty to help them.
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 01:02 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;153465 wrote:
My biggest fear would be to reincarnate and have to live again... I do not believe Death is the End of existence of the Soul. I believe there are certain things to be learned in (every) Life. Not ending it might be the biggest lesson to learn.


The only problem with this is the logistics of it. I mean, what is the point in learning a lesson if you don't remember it? I don't see how you could remember it if there are multiple lives. where is the lesson stored? I just don't see how you would remember the lesson and then what is the lesson for? In this life when we learn a lesson it is to improve ourselves (hopefully) so when we meet a similar situation we might have a better result or solution. But if there are multiple lives, what is the point with improving yourself unless there is some thing to prove it for? Is there some ultimate life that all this "practice" lives is for? It makes no sense. The equation is flat and meaningless.

Pepijn Sweep;153465 wrote:

I follow the debates about euthanasia with great interest. If suffering becomes un-bearable I think it's good, but strictly on medical grounds. If people suffer otherwise society has a duty to help them.


I think it should always be up to the person. Some people allow their depression to over come them and consume them. If they refuse help and do not look for a solution then by all means they are just not cut out for life. Why continue torturing themselves if they can't cope with life? That might sound callus but there is always someone willing to help those who are in need. So there is no excuse for those who refuse to acknowledge there is help available for them.
 
wayne
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 01:11 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;153466 wrote:
I think it should always be up to the person. Some people allow their depression to over come them and consume them. If they refuse help and do not look for a solution then by all means they are just not cut out for life. Why continue torturing themselves if they can't cope with life? That might sound callus but there is always someone willing to help those who are in need. So there is no excuse for those who refuse to acknowledge there is help available for them.


I think the nature of depression generally confuses a persons ability to see that help is available to them. Depression does not lend itself to rational thought.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 01:35 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;153466 wrote:
The only problem with this is the logistics of it. I mean, what is the point in learning a lesson if you don't remember it? I don't see how you could remember it if there are multiple lives. where is the lesson stored? I just don't see how you would remember the lesson and then what is the lesson for? In this life when we learn a lesson it is to improve ourselves (hopefully) so when we meet a similar situation we might have a better result or solution. But if there are multiple lives, what is the point with improving yourself unless there is some thing to prove it for? Is there some ultimate life that all this "practice" lives is for? It makes no sense. The equation is flat and meaningless.

I think it should always be up to the person. Some people allow their depression to over come them and consume them. If they refuse help and do not look for a solution then by all means they are just not cut out for life. Why continue torturing themselves if they can't cope with life? That might sound callus but there is always someone willing to help those who are in need. So there is no excuse for those who refuse to acknowledge there is help available for them.


When you are in despair you do not think logical. Buddhism saved my live, not by giving it a meaning, but exactly what you say. I always found it hard to believe, and still do, that we would not remember anything. Reincarnation scares me more than christian Hell to be frank. The pointlessness of it. My not logical solution was to make this my final life and live it to the end.

When you are in despair you need help. But conventional help offered was not what I needed. I lost Faith in the Good and that's difficult to get back. I had people around me to help, but an severe crisis in my life was something I had to work out myself. And I did 12 years ago, learned valuable lessons & can help myself and others better now.

When you are in Love & Loved everything seems Good. I had to deal with material problems and my mother slipping away by Alzheimer and could not cope. That does not mean I can not cope with regular Life. I was depressed but managed to keep helping my mother and by that I helped myself. The experience profoundly changed my life.

In Holland we debated a lot on the topic. I talked about euthanasia, not about suicide. I agree with you; it's up to the person... It's just so hard for the people left behind. The facts of life are that there's not always adequate help available. Furthermore it's really hard to reach out to clinically depressed people.

What does equation mean ? I have no dictionary with me. Are you referring to my post, or to reincarnation ?:sarcastic:
 
Krumple
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 03:34 am
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep;153470 wrote:
When you are in despair you do not think logical. Buddhism saved my live, not by giving it a meaning, but exactly what you say. I always found it hard to believe, and still do, that we would not remember anything. Reincarnation scares me more than christian Hell to be frank. The pointlessness of it. My not logical solution was to make this my final life and live it to the end.


Thank you for sharing this, I have learned more from you in the few seconds it took to read this than all your previous posts combined. I understand exactly what you mean, and how you feel about this topic. I do have a fondness for Buddhism, even though I do not consider myself a Buddhist. I have been to many different schools of Buddhism and they each seem to have their own unique perspective on rebirth and reincarnation.

I think it is not something to worry about. You can never be certain what will happen to you in the future, but you can be certain of what choices you will make in the present. You can not be slighted for your choices. Yes there are bad and good choices, but they are made according to your self. Even influential decisions are still made by you. I never fault a single person no matter what they have done, because they are just as cursed as I am. No one knows the ultimate best solution in every situation. We all guess, have personal biases and desire tends to cloud the best choice on occasion.

If I die and live another life, it will not be me who is living a new life. If it were the case then I would recall my past lives vividly, but I don't. So I don't concern myself with them at all. As far as I am concerned, once this body ceases to function, so will the self that I consider me to be. If anything at all moves on, it will not be me, not even in the smallest amount.

Pepijn Sweep;153470 wrote:

What does equation mean ? I have no dictionary with me. Are you referring to my post, or to reincarnation ?:sarcastic:


I was referring to reincarnation.

---------- Post added 04-18-2010 at 02:37 AM ----------

wayne;153468 wrote:
I think the nature of depression generally confuses a persons ability to see that help is available to them. Depression does not lend itself to rational thought.


Yes this is true. It can be a downward spiral locked into a mode of thinking that is self defeating. I personally think this is not something that is common with every single culture. I believe that this is something that is caused by improper education. There has even been studies down that have determined that depression actually might be an evolutionary advantage mechanism.
 
sometime sun
 
Reply Sun 18 Apr, 2010 02:31 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple;153483 wrote:
There has even been studies down that have determined that depression actually might be an evolutionary advantage mechanism.

Please please tell me where to find this information.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 19 Apr, 2010 01:07 am
@Krumple,
Krumple;153483 wrote:

Yes this is true. It can be a downward spiral locked into a mode of thinking that is self defeating. I personally think this is not something that is common with every single culture. I believe that this is something that is caused by improper education. There has even been studies down that have determined that depression actually might be an evolutionary advantage mechanism.


Do you mean to say that without proper education a evolutionary advantage might turn into an illness ? Do you consider religion as a form of education ? Can it be a cure ?:a-thought:
 
 

 
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