Yes, You are right. The idea seemed to make sense when I read it but I don't think I would ever feel ready to take such action unless maybe if I see that I am causing much sadness and anxiety to the people I love. I know the survival instinct is so strong. It's still a fact though that people don't die a natural death anymore, at some point someone has to decide to "pull the plug" or most of the time they die from an overdose of morphine and it is a difficult decision to take for family members, so I thought why not take the decision myself instead of having my daughter decide for example and having her wonder if she did the right thing. It would help if death wasn't such a tabbo, especially in the medical system. Nowadays they are talking a lot about euthanasia but it is already practiced. Do you hear about this were you live?

Here euthanesia is a big issue. Doctors want some kind of legislation to make things clear because they do it all the time but they just can't speak about it. They also talk about "assisted suicide" for people who are very sick with no hope of improvement. Our medical system is quite advanced I suppose, but it has become inhumane. I pity the doctors, medecine is suppose to be a noble profession but doctors have become vassals, they have so little freedom because of bureaucracy, the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies...they have so many rules to abide by that their patients are no longer their priorities. Euthanasia is very tricky, we don't want it to be a way of getting rid of unproductive people like with faschism but on the other hand there is too much unnecessary medical intervention. We see too many old people get operated just to prove the doctor right in his diagnosis that there is nothing he can do for his patient, especially in cases of cancer.
I am lucky till now. I've only seen a doctor and went to the hospital when I got pregnant and even then I could have given birth at home because at that time the nurses were on strike and the doctor came too late and I was assisted only by a young student doctor...anyways I guess there is no ideal way to die. I'm a dreamer but I would really like a happy ending, some "grande finale" instead of having someone wanting to save my life when I barely have any life at all left in me. I don't do drugs and I hate to think I will probably die on morphine. I want to know what is happening when I die, I don't want to be stone out of my mind at such an important moment. This happened to my father and to other people who I knew. The eldrly are being treated as if they were idiots. It's all about respect and about not seeing death as a failure. Some cultures have a better attitude towards death. I once saw a good movie about a Japanese boudhist granny that decided she was ready to die. It was very philosophical but I don't remember the title. Anyways, about vegetarianism we could start a thread on that; this thread is about coming to terms with death and vegetarianism is about life but thanks for asking I could go on and on about that.

Ops, sorry, I meant vegetarians as in "people who cant do anything anymore and cant recover from that situation". Maybe this term doesnt exist in english, or I said it wrong.

From the sound of it, your society isnt being very honest with himself. I mean, it does euthanasia but seemingly doesnt wants to admit it.

Where do you live, by the way? =)

You mean "vegetables" or people in persistent vegetative states, not "vegetarians".

Yes manored, my society has been dominated by catholicism for a long time so there is a tradition of institutionalised hypocrisy on the higher levels. But don't get me wrong, I am not promoting suicide; you say you decided you will never suicide and I don't know if that means you have considered it sereously. Life is indeed a precious gift and we must make the most out of it. I was thinking more about the elderly. It seems that many do suicide but this too is not talked about. I live in Quebec, (from Brasil, it's straight up) which is seen as a historic aberration because the people here are French speaking and were supposed to be assimilated but they survived and multiplied. The people are partly American and partly European in spirit, we are seen as "peasants with a credit card" because we developed more materially but let's stick to the subject! Like others said on this thread, we tend to live better once we get over the fear of dying.

When I was in college I heard a psychology teacher say that to become old is to become free (sounds better in French). Since I wanted freedom more than anything else, I kept that in mind all the time and I see now that I'm getting older that it is true...well not the freedom of doing whatever you want when you want, but the true freedom that comes when you know yourself, when things become less important and more laughable. So I see death as the ultimate freedom, that of the soul from the material body...but I'm in no hurry and I intend to enjoy my stay on earth as long as I can. Gandhi said that it is possible to live up to 125 years
but we must give up sex, alcohol, drugs, eat as little as possible and pray a lot...the poor man got shot to death at age 79, so we'll never know if he would have succeeded...but I wonder, who wants to live that long anyways!

polpol;132968 wrote:

When I was in college I heard a psychology teacher say that to become old is to become free (sounds better in French). Since I wanted freedom more than anything else, I kept that in mind all the time and I see now that I'm getting older that it is true...well not the freedom of doing whatever you want when you want, but the true freedom that comes when you know yourself, when things become less important and more laughable. So I see death as the ultimate freedom, that of the soul from the material body...but I'm in no hurry and I intend to enjoy my stay on earth as long as I can. Gandhi said that it is possible to live up to 125 years
but we must give up sex, alcohol, drugs, eat as little as possible and pray a lot...the poor man got shot to death at age 79, so we'll never know if he would have succeeded...but I wonder, who wants to live that long anyways!

Is a long life without sigarettes desirable ?

Basically what you have done is what yogis and Buddhist monks have done for thousands of years. You have turned off this universe and discovered that there is more that what you see, hear, touch and so on. You as consciousness are not going to cease to exist. Only the body dies. You will live on in many future lives (body's). The past one's you cannot remember because those are stored in your Higher Mind. Which you will merge with at the death of your body. The universalness you experienced is the touching of your higher mind which is connected to all other higher minds, thus the universal feeling or experience.

I've heard a lot about LSD recently and admit I am curious; as I am with marijuana. But it seems to me that these drugs are used in order to intensify a talent (such as writing or making music), or to, as the OP said make them see things differently; or open one's mind. I'm quite unconmfortable with this. Though I see the benefits that such drugs have created (such as the music of Jimi Hendrix and similar artists), I have to question whether it is the person making the music, or the drugs that creates this phenomina.

Or, am I missing something? Does LSD and pot just bring out what is already there?

Does anyone else here share my thoughts and does anyone here have any philosophical analysis of this story?
I would greatly appreciate a plurality of viewpoints on this topic, as I am still currently fascinated by the notion of my own death.

That's a huge assumption you're making ("You as consciousness are not going to cease to exist. Only the body dies."). I don't think it's true either.
I'm pretty sure that consciousness is a product of biology.
A computer engineer recently built a replica of a rat's brain (I think I read it in Scientific American) and he says he is working on a human replica now. He believes that the computer will awaken with a consciousness identical to our own thus proving that we do not have eternal souls or anything of the like.
I guess we just have to wait and find out.

I didn't say that the reason I don't think souls exist is BECAUSE I think consciousness is a product of biology. I never made the argument that things must be necessary to exist either.

And your assumption about being conscious after death remains unprovable.

"why would an eletronic brain exactly like an human's do anything to disprove afterlife, then?"

Miscommunication. I wasn't saying that^, the computer engineer I was referring to said that. I can see the possibility for confusion, I should have been more precise with my words.

And...I'm not buyin any of those arguments.
I think they all operate around the false premise that somehow the human consciousness is crucial to the existence of everything else.

Why would a person believe that animals are just animals, but that humans are somehow different? Ego confuses us, in my opinion.

You can't imagine a world in the future in which you do not exist, but there was most definitely a past in which you did not exist, so...

Well then, why would an eletronic brain exactly like an human's do anything to disprove afterlife, then?

Here is my logical attempt of proving it:

First Argument:
There is no way to prove that this life is real, and thus it certainly is not,

although it is certain that I exist. There is, also, no proof of that the end of the conscience is possible, for it has never happened,

nor can it ever happen as I would not be able to perceive it.

In other words, only because I perceive myself as an human, and humans die, it does not follow that I die, because my humanity is an ilusion.

Second Argument:
The mind is the sole perceiver of the universe. The mind, thus, cannot end, for there would be no mind to perceive this end. It would be like trying to have events in a realm without time.

Third Argument:
The universe is infinite in both size and in the variety of its contents.

It is so because it can exist without explanation. If it is infinite in both size and content, then certainly everything happens on it, including minds being "recycled".

Im not sure if these arguments are purely free of flaws and totally clear, so I will elaborate on then if needed =)

But, off course, this proves nothing about souls. I dont think souls are necessary, but we cant prove they dont exist either.

Yes, but not a long life without sex and alcohol.

Besides, sex and alcohol, in the proper amounts and done properly, are actually healthful. But even if they were not, life would not be worth living without them.