Coming to terms with death

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andy1984
 
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 08:28 pm
@3k1yp2,
3k1yp2;118729 wrote:
this idea of converting to christianity to avoid hell has intrigued me for some time now. I am an agnostic who leans rather heavilly towards athieism, but have often wondered if perhaps I should "accept" christ and go to church just to be safe, even though i find much absurdity in the religion. (not Absurd as in Camus) But wouldn't I still go to Hell anyway, even if ther was a God, since I essentially would be converting to save my own skin rather than out of any real caring for God? Looks like if there is a God, I'm damned if I do ad damned if I don't...


don't you have to accept the existence of hell before it could make any sense to convert so you wont end up there? if you already believe in hell, then its not much of a jump to become a christian; if you believe in one thing christians talk about why not the rest? if you don't believe, then why would you bother even contemplating it?

i guess you could be trying to avoid the tiniest probability that christians are right and being a superficial/selfish christian keeps you out of hell. but that makes no sense to me, considering the many other things that are possible and other religion's views.
 
3k1yp2
 
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2010 04:11 pm
@andy1984,
:Not-Impressed:
andy1984;118900 wrote:
don't you have to accept the existence of hell before it could make any sense to convert so you wont end up there? if you already believe in hell, then its not much of a jump to become a christian; if you believe in one thing christians talk about why not the rest? if you don't believe, then why would you bother even contemplating it?

i guess you could be trying to avoid the tiniest probability that christians are right and being a superficial/selfish christian keeps you out of hell. but that makes no sense to me, considering the many other things that are possible and other religion's views.


i don't really believe any of it, and that's precisely my point. i can't find it in myself (or delude myself?) to believe, so on the off chance that they're actually right, im totally screwed right? Maybe i should just enjoy life, huh? It may be kind of odd, but a part of me can't wait to the end so I can see if there is indeed a supreme being or afterlife, I guess I'm just a curious person or something...
 
Greddy
 
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2010 02:24 pm
@Mentally Ill,
I dont think people are that much afraid of death itself, when they have come to terms with it.

I think:
When people have lived a long life, and seen and experienced alot of things, they probarly have a much more casual relationship to death. The only thing I can think of being intimidate is loneliness.

In my case death itself is not that terrifying, it's missing out the experience that might come in the future that scare me most. That's why dying in a young age might be more "scary" when you have a life ahead of you, then being old, lived and experienced alot of things.
 
3k1yp2
 
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2010 06:50 pm
@Greddy,
for me the problem is the fact that would feel as if i was leaving things undone and leaving people alone. If i didn't have people who needed me, i wouldn't mind dying. I would hate to not be there to help someone. also, i want to experience life to the fullest. im only 18, and there are sooo many things that i want to do, and so many places i want to go an see. To me, death and the afterlife is no big deal. But like greddy said, it's about leaving things undone. i'm not afraid to die, but i would prefer to die old rather than young. just fyi, Some common (widely read and familiar) literary works that have an element dealing with coming to terms with death are Hamlet, The Stranger by Camus, and A Man for All Seasons, by Bolt. I actually chose those three boks to write a paper on and I compared them along this point.
 
Febo
 
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2010 09:07 pm
@mister kitten,
In my personal case I have often tried to come to terms with death, because of little accomplishment up until now I cant say "I'm ready to die", but I accept death as it is a natural occurence and when the time comes, the time comes.

As far as hallucinogens, I am on the same boat, and having new perspective through another state of consciousness I think is really important.

I am lucid dreaming

:rockon:
 
William
 
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2010 09:09 pm
@Mentally Ill,
Mentally Ill;105496 wrote:

I can truly say, I am now ready to die. And, now, I feel more than ever, that I can truly say, I am ready to live.


Good statement. Other than "ready to live" you might want to say "begin to live".

William
 
Febo
 
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2010 09:10 pm
@3k1yp2,
3k1yp2;119514 wrote:
for me the problem is the fact that would feel as if i was leaving things undone and leaving people alone. If i didn't have people who needed me, i wouldn't mind dying. I would hate to not be there to help someone. also, i want to experience life to the fullest. im only 18, and there are sooo many things that i want to do, and so many places i want to go an see.

_________

Im 16 and feel the exact same way, theres some truth to live every day so that when you get to point of passing away its not so hard and you cant say "I didnt live my life"
 
3k1yp2
 
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2010 09:30 pm
@Febo,
Febo;119554 wrote:
3k1yp2;119514 wrote:
for me the problem is the fact that would feel as if i was leaving things undone and leaving people alone. If i didn't have people who needed me, i wouldn't mind dying. I would hate to not be there to help someone. also, i want to experience life to the fullest. im only 18, and there are sooo many things that i want to do, and so many places i want to go an see.

_________

Im 16 and feel the exact same way, theres some truth to live every day so that when you get to point of passing away its not so hard and you cant say "I didnt live my life"


well said,************
 
G-Thomson
 
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 02:51 pm
@3k1yp2,
3k1yp2;119514 wrote:
for me the problem is the fact that would feel as if i was leaving things undone and leaving people alone. If i didn't have people who needed me, i wouldn't mind dying. I would hate to not be there to help someone. also, i want to experience life to the fullest. im only 18, and there are sooo many things that i want to do, and so many places i want to go an see. To me, death and the afterlife is no big deal. But like greddy said, it's about leaving things undone. i'm not afraid to die, but i would prefer to die old rather than young.


I agree with you. I'm only 18 too, but I'm hitting my 'existential crisis' pretty early.
I also think about leaving friends and family and all the jazz associated with it, but I hold no belief whatsoever in an afterlife.
This brings me on to a point in which I begin to truly question what I call, my 'life'.
I can't remember where it is from, but the quote, "When I die, the world dies with me" comes into mind when pondering the big question.
If there is no afterlife, then you won't know of any pain and suffering caused by your death, as there is no experience for you after that. You will not be able to know of everything you cherished, of the plants, the trees, the air, the people...the Earth.

However, I don't plan on going anytime soon, even though I contemplate suicide every few days. (Nothing major, just things like, "I wonder what would happen if I jumped in front of that train, took too many pills", etc)

I suppose it's all just part of my OCD. :sarcastic:

Oh, and I've already started my '100 things to do before I die' list. Just to keep me striving for something and not lying around, stagnant...thinking.
 
Mentally Ill
 
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 04:20 pm
@G-Thomson,
"i'm not afraid to die, but i would prefer to die old rather than young."

Agreed. Accepting the inevitability of your death is not the same as submitting yourself to death. Although I know that the only truly fated course in my life is towards death, I still strive to live and rebel against my demise every single day. Every bite of food you eat and every push-up you do is an act of defiance in the face of your ultimate destiny, but that's what life is: the antithesis to death.
Right?
The system wants equalize, and organisms are rebels in that system, taking what they can and processing it in different ways so that they can all continue to exist. Life is an act of rebellion (in my eyes at least).
 
manored
 
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 06:55 pm
@3k1yp2,
3k1yp2;118729 wrote:
this idea of converting to christianity to avoid hell has intrigued me for some time now. I am an agnostic who leans rather heavilly towards athieism, but have often wondered if perhaps I should "accept" christ and go to church just to be safe, even though i find much absurdity in the religion. (not Absurd as in Camus) But wouldn't I still go to Hell anyway, even if ther was a God, since I essentially would be converting to save my own skin rather than out of any real caring for God? Looks like if there is a God, I'm damned if I do ad damned if I don't...
Well if there is one god there must be more, so if we get sent to hell eventually some other god will save us from the egocentric unforgiving one that is ours =)

3k1yp2;119021 wrote:
It may be kind of odd, but a part of me can't wait to the end so I can see if there is indeed a supreme being or afterlife, I guess I'm just a curious person or something...
I feel that way too. A part of me cant wait for death, but, because I want to live for as long as I can, it will take decades until I can see death, perhaps, with some luck, a century. Its frustrating =)

3k1yp2;119514 wrote:
for me the problem is the fact that would feel as if i was leaving things undone and leaving people alone. If i didn't have people who needed me, i wouldn't mind dying. I would hate to not be there to help someone. also, i want to experience life to the fullest. im only 18, and there are sooo many things that i want to do, and so many places i want to go an see. To me, death and the afterlife is no big deal. But like greddy said, it's about leaving things undone. i'm not afraid to die, but i would prefer to die old rather than young. just fyi, Some common (widely read and familiar) literary works that have an element dealing with coming to terms with death are Hamlet, The Stranger by Camus, and A Man for All Seasons, by Bolt. I actually chose those three boks to write a paper on and I compared them along this point.
For me too, the main reason I dont wanna die is all the people who care for me I would be leaving behind. I dont care that much about the things I wanna do that would be left to do, but since death has no arguments whatsoever on its favor, I stick to life in that case anyway.

G-Thomson;119753 wrote:
I agree with you. I'm only 18 too, but I'm hitting my 'existential crisis' pretty early.
I hit my existential crisis then I was eleven (or perhaps up to 3 years earlier, my memory sucks for time), and have been revisiting it ever so often. Then it happened, I asked my father what the meaning of life was (naive kid). My father said that was a question a lot of people would want the answer to, but nobody had the answer. I came to conclude the meaning of life is something we choose ourselves. What to choose is the big issue =)

I came to choose to just live my life in a fun and pleasurable manner, not caring much for other people or the world, though I will try to not hinder then either. The only good I inteend to do to the world, at least for now, is to be philosophical and hope that philosopy will leak into others and change then for the better =)

G-Thomson;119753 wrote:

Oh, and I've already started my '100 things to do before I die' list. Just to keep me striving for something and not lying around, stagnant...thinking.
One well choosed item is all you need. And then I mean well choosen, I mean something you can progress towards, but, at the same time, never accomplish. Like world peace =)

Mentally Ill;119788 wrote:

The system wants equalize, and organisms are rebels in that system, taking what they can and processing it in different ways so that they can all continue to exist. Life is an act of rebellion (in my eyes at least).
A rebellion against entropy? =)

Personally I see death as the end of my body, not of my life. For some reason, this step in life has a certain, big change ahead called "death", but life will continue afteryards. What life will be like after this change, I have no idea.
 
3k1yp2
 
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 11:50 pm
@G-Thomson,
G-Thomson;119753 wrote:
I agree with you. I'm only 18 too, but I'm hitting my 'existential crisis' pretty early.
I also think about leaving friends and family and all the jazz associated with it, but I hold no belief whatsoever in an afterlife.
This brings me on to a point in which I begin to truly question what I call, my 'life'.
I can't remember where it is from, but the quote, "When I die, the world dies with me" comes into mind when pondering the big question.
If there is no afterlife, then you won't know of any pain and suffering caused by your death, as there is no experience for you after that. You will not be able to know of everything you cherished, of the plants, the trees, the air, the people...the Earth.

However, I don't plan on going anytime soon, even though I contemplate suicide every few days. (Nothing major, just things like, "I wonder what would happen if I jumped in front of that train, took too many pills", etc)

I suppose it's all just part of my OCD. :sarcastic:

Oh, and I've already started my '100 things to do before I die' list. Just to keep me striving for something and not lying around, stagnant...thinking.


i don't wanna die either, and i thought it was an odd thing that only i did, but you to think the "what if i did this and i died" type thoughts. Additionally, i too have a list, but it's got some really random and absurd things that may or may not have a point. A couple of the things on there are go to the olympics as either a participant or a spectator, and steal the constitution of the united states just because i can steal something so heavilly guarded. no way in hell i'll do half the things on the list, but its fun to make and it puts me in a good mood...
 
SammDickens
 
Reply Sat 16 Jan, 2010 08:02 pm
@Mentally Ill,
When I was 18, I was intent on getting myself killed fighting injustice and entrenched authority by the time I was 27. I disappointed myself badly. But I lived my life. I found that I wasn't strong enough to fight all the injustice around me, I was not the stuff of heroes, just another lost soul trying to make sense of my life and give my life meaning. Still trying to do that at age 60. Scary to see that. Age sneaks up on you. Suddenly, it's "Aw crap! I'm an old fart!" I didn't die nobly at 27...or 36...or 45.

I want a do-over. I'm sure I can screw up my life better the second time around.

Of course, none of us is getting any do-overs. Not this 60-year old fart; not any of you 16 and 18-year old fartlets. I cannot undo any of my 60 years of mistakes, and you cannot undo any of your 16 to 18 years of mistakes. Whether mistakes or not, our actions are eternal. Once we act, this way or that, our actions are nonrefundable, aren't they? Early on, we're all potential, for good or bad, but with each action we take in each and every day of our lives our potentials are realized and immortalized. My portrait is almost all painted. You guys have only a few strokes of paint on your canvases, but your few strokes are as indelible as my many. Paint carefully, and let no-one tell you where to place your brush or what mix of colors with which to fill its bristles. That's my two cents of advice for you to accept or reject.

Death is easier to face as you age if only because life is more difficult to endure as your body ages and begins to fail. You are less able to care for yourself and others, less able to carry your share of the work in maintaining your home. I'm diabetic and can't even put on or take off my socks without great effort anymore. There are many problems. I fear what age will do to me if death does not come soon to my rescue. No-one really wants to be disabled, and I say that with apologies to those who live with disabilities. My contributions to life, save one, have all been made, and what remains may remain undone. I say all this not for your pity but so you will know what concerns age will bring to you, sooner or later. I tell you, live life fully and by your own standards, your own design, now while you have the vigor and freedom of youth; for you will not have that vigor always.

Samm
 
3k1yp2
 
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 09:38 am
@Mentally Ill,
im a fartlet! heh heh... i love it!

---------- Post added 01-17-2010 at 09:41 AM ----------

thank you for that advice Samm, i think its good enough for the "inner vault". (that's where i keep the really good advice that i like and finhd useful) =)
 
manored
 
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 11:07 am
@Mentally Ill,
I dont like regretting the past, because it cannot be undone, and even if it could, how would we really avoid the mistake winhout the experience gained by commiting it? So I prefer to look to the future. My memory sucks anyway =)
 
3k1yp2
 
Reply Sun 17 Jan, 2010 07:41 pm
@manored,
manored;120672 wrote:
I dont like regretting the past, because it cannot be undone, and even if it could, how would we really avoid the mistake winhout the experience gained by commiting it? So I prefer to look to the future. My memory sucks anyway =)


I don't like to regret the past either, nor do i do it often because it is indeed pointless, but sometimes it does sneak up on you...the haunting of the mind by memories past...so to avoid these sneaky scoundrels, i believe that samm is correct in saying that you should live your life well and enjoy your youth, (unless it's gone), because there are no do overs.
 
polpol
 
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 03:51 pm
@3k1yp2,
When I was in college I heard a psychology teacher say that to become old is to become free (sounds better in French). Since I wanted freedom more than anything else, I kept that in mind all the time and I see now that I'm getting older that it is true...well not the freedom of doing whatever you want when you want, but the true freedom that comes when you know yourself, when things become less important and more laughable. So I see death as the ultimate freedom, that of the soul from the material body...but I'm in no hurry and I intend to enjoy my stay on earth as long as I can. Gandhi said that it is possible to live up to 125 years
but we must give up sex, alcohol, drugs, eat as little as possible and pray a lot...the poor man got shot to death at age 79, so we'll never know if he would have succeeded...but I wonder, who wants to live that long anyways!
 
manored
 
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2010 06:07 pm
@polpol,
polpol;132968 wrote:
When I was in college I heard a psychology teacher say that to become old is to become free (sounds better in French). Since I wanted freedom more than anything else, I kept that in mind all the time and I see now that I'm getting older that it is true...well not the freedom of doing whatever you want when you want, but the true freedom that comes when you know yourself, when things become less important and more laughable. So I see death as the ultimate freedom, that of the soul from the material body...but I'm in no hurry and I intend to enjoy my stay on earth as long as I can. Gandhi said that it is possible to live up to 125 years
but we must give up sex, alcohol, drugs, eat as little as possible and pray a lot...the poor man got shot to death at age 79, so we'll never know if he would have succeeded...but I wonder, who wants to live that long anyways!
So to live a lot we must not live? hum... =)

I intend to live for as long as I manage to prolong my life, even if it comes to involve plugin my brain into a computer. But I dont really mind dying that much, I believe in afterlife, that is, I cant really die.
 
polpol
 
Reply Sat 27 Feb, 2010 05:54 pm
@SammDickens,
Sam, if you are a village idiot, than I will come right away to settle in your village because I imagine the rest of the people must be extraordinarilly intelligent. Thank you for your thoughts, no one could have said it better. Now, you say you are diabetic but you are only 60 so there must be something you can do than wait for death to deliver you...sorry, I don't mean to intrude in your way of dealing with your life, but did you try things outside what the doctors say? Why not become vegetarian, that should fix it. They say diabetes is mostly a modern junk food desease. Anyways, we're all with you.
 
Mentally Ill
 
Reply Mon 1 Mar, 2010 08:35 pm
@manored,
"A rebellion against entropy?"

Exactly. The way of things is chaotic, but organisms take energy and put it in a system. Energy wants to disperse but organisms contain it and manage it. Entropy wants to control, but life creates order where chaos once ruled.
That's why I consider life to be an act of defiance against the natural way and against our eventual fate as well. Death is our destination and life is our defiant journey through space and time...
 
 

 
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