On Creation

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trismegisto
 
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 06:54 pm
@William,
William;148984 wrote:
Now that was not so difficult was it? Good going, "man".

william


Thanks for finally catching on!
There may be hope for you after all.
 
William
 
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 07:00 pm
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;149000 wrote:
Thanks for finally catching on!
There may be hope for you after all.


Well, thank you your majesty. Now you can take your condescending attitude and put it where the boundless light and infinite supreme don't shine.

William
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 07:02 pm
@William,
William;149002 wrote:
Well, thank you your majesty. Now you can take your condescending attitude and put it where the boundless light and infinite supreme don't shine.

William



tsk, tsk. You are whining again. Will you never learn?
 
William
 
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 07:10 pm
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;149006 wrote:
Will you never learn?


From you? Most definitely! See ya!

William
 
reasoning logic
 
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 07:13 pm
@William,
William;149002 wrote:
Well, thank you your majesty. Now you can take your condescending attitude and put it where the boundless light and infinite supreme don't shine.

William
William we need to get busy on the science of understanding the mind and ethics as you and me will have descendents just like this.:detective:
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 07:13 pm
@William,
William;149012 wrote:
From you? Most definitely! See ya!

William


Goodbye, William, and good luck to you.
 
William
 
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 07:24 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic;149015 wrote:
William we need to get busy on the science of understanding the mind and ethics as you and me will have descendents just like this.:detective:


That would be nice. Will you never learn that being condescending to anyone is not the way to go about. Until you learn THAT, then we have nothing to discuss. You see we do have a lot in common as to what god is all about. I will not tolerate the way you are conducting yourself for us to do that; not to me or anyone else on this forum. Learn that and I would love to discuss mind and ethics with you.

william

Please forgive the above post reasoning logic; it was not meant for you. I did not notice who was responding.

To better answer your response reasoning logic, I whole heartedly agree. Sorry that response was not aimed at you my friend.


William
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Tue 6 Apr, 2010 07:48 pm
@William,
Just when I thought we had said our goodbyes...

William;149021 wrote:
That would be nice. Will you never learn that being condescending to anyone is not the way to go about. Until you learn THAT, then we have nothing to discuss. You see we do have a lot in common as to what god is all about. I will not tolerate the way you are conducting yourself for us to do that; not to me or anyone else on this forum. Learn that and I would love to discuss mind and ethics with you.


William, will you ever learn that nobody cares about your little tantrums. If you have philosophy to discuss, then by all mean do it. But, please, grow up and have a little self respect, will you?
 
Doorsopen
 
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 06:09 am
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;145453 wrote:
It is by the will of the infinitie supreme that nothing shall ever be separated from everything: the birth of love ...

...It is through the spirit that the mind is swayed by love to create.
The fourth aspect of the light within darkness is matter. The movement of matter by spirit allows mind to create from love.


I have throughly read, and re-read your original post and have quoted two related points that trouble me somewhat.

But firstly, a brief description, of circumstances that lead to my difficulty in assimilating certain concepts ... I was very disturbed by the insights into these memories, as you so aptly name them, when I arrived at, what in (mystical) Catholic tradition is referred to as, a state of Grace.

It was not the texts that lead me to an understanding, but rather the understanding which lead me to these texts as a confirmation of my belief. I may just as easily have dismissed these ideas as an overwrought imagination, or insanity it seemed at the time, but having sought out, and being lead to these various texts, reading solidified my faith in the concepts to which I had been lead.

Still, I continue to research a relationship between this understanding and the sciences, physics in particular. This is not in an effort to test the validity of the principles you state so throughly; it is, rather, to test the validity of scientific understanding against the simple and elegant model of the nature of the Universe.

My most recent mental battle centers around the ideas I have quoted from your original post.

We are in agreement as concerns your statement on the origin of love, but I struggle to reconcile the concept of 'love' within the concept of 'will'.

We agree that the movement of matter by spirit (what I think of as emergence) allows mind to create ... However, mind, in darkness, also creates, even if that which it may create can be considered illusionary (fear). As this is the case, the mind in darkness may seek out Love, and Love as a unifying force will be attained. Such a process will carry the mind through destruction in order to fulfill the purpose of love. This seems natural enough as this will has emerged from darkness and must be in harmony with its source of emergence. This process, although a reflection of the very nature of existence, places mind into an apparent contradiction with itself. Simply stated, how may one justify actions towards love that the will may require, when the means to that end have a destructive quality? Here, we arrive at the creation of suffering, whose reconciliation is faith which in turn may lead one towards enlightenment. So my quandary is this:

Why should I choose to love, when loving leads me through suffering.
 
GoshisDead
 
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 10:23 am
@Doorsopen,
Jeeprs:
This is my take on the situation here. I have been following it, simply because sometimes flaming is entertaining on a base level. I have enjoyed the constant troll accusations, when actually the only trolling post in this thread, not written by the OP was mine, as it was deliberate in mocking another post, and not a legitimate criticism or complaint.

Many people on this site are very familiar (to say the least) with various forms, disciplines, and traditions of meditation (conscious contemplation). The real problem with a criticism on some of these traditions comes from an internal sense of revelation/enlightenment. All of the literature on the planet written about it can only but provide a rough road map of how to get where one is supposed to be going. Some have said its is as simple as to stop traveling, others, that we already possess all the enlightenment needed if we but get over ourselves and recognize it. These are not new concepts. The internal manner of such enlightenment however, cannot be cristicized in an external manner. Thus when someone posts what seems to many as incoherent ramblings, others can only comment on its seeming incoherency. Often times that person who finds the, enlightenment, is frustrates at his/her inability to represent that which s/he really experienced.

However directly related to this thread, I have never heard of a tradition where such outright condescention and jackassery has been condoned. One cannot seriously expect others to see him as anything more than a narcissistic crackpot when deliberate attempts to belittle and demean others is practiced with such relish. I may not be 'enlightened' but I sure as heck am enlightened enough to understand that one with that much pent up angst, passive aggression and hostility towards his fellow men is not enlightened either.
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 12:49 pm
@Doorsopen,
Doorsopen;149192 wrote:
We are in agreement as concerns your statement on the origin of love, but I struggle to reconcile the concept of 'love' within the concept of 'will'.


Let's see if I can clear up my understanding and help you with yours.

Doorsopen;149192 wrote:
We agree that the movement of matter by spirit (what I think of as emergence) allows mind to create ... However, mind, in darkness, also creates, even if that which it may create can be considered illusionary (fear). As this is the case, the mind in darkness may seek out Love, and Love as a unifying force will be attained. Such a process will carry the mind through destruction in order to fulfill the purpose of love. This seems natural enough as this will has emerged from darkness and must be in harmony with its source of emergence. This process, although a reflection of the very nature of existence, places mind into an apparent contradiction with itself. Simply stated, how may one justify actions towards love that the will may require, when the means to that end have a destructive quality? Here, we arrive at the creation of suffering, whose reconciliation is faith which in turn may lead one towards enlightenment. So my quandary is this:

Why should I choose to love, when loving leads me through suffering.


For us there are two kinds of love, Love of Self and Love of All. For the Infinite Supreme there is no distinction as the All is the Self. But for us it is a different matter. Every action taken in this universe is done out of Love. Either for Love of Self or Love of All.

Love of Self is essential to the survival of the body in this universe but beyond survival Love of Self is corrupted in greed lust desire etc.
Love of All is the freedom from our Self and a return to the true self.

If love leads you to suffering it is because you Love yourself more than All.
But suffering is only a mental state. It is a form of weakness. Everyone has pain that is just a part of life, to endure, is to overcome that pain, to suffer is to become a victim of it.

As for the Darkness, it is merely nothing, the absence of Love, the absence of good, the absence of everything. But it is still a part of the infinite supreme. The darkness is merely a receptacle for the light of the infinite supreme. The only difference between the light within and the light without is that the light within is not infinite, it has form and limits. The light within is what most religions call God.

I hope that helps some.
 
xris
 
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 01:37 pm
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;149286 wrote:
Let's see if I can clear up my understanding and help you with yours.



For us there are two kinds of love, Love of Self and Love of All. For the Infinite Supreme there is no distinction as the All is the Self. But for us it is a different matter. Every action taken in this universe is done out of Love. Either for Love of Self or Love of All.

Love of Self is essential to the survival of the body in this universe but beyond survival Love of Self is corrupted in greed lust desire etc.
Love of All is the freedom from our Self and a return to the true self.

If love leads you to suffering it is because you Love yourself more than All.
But suffering is only a mental state. It is a form of weakness. Everyone has pain that is just a part of life, to endure, is to overcome that pain, to suffer is to become a victim of it.

As for the Darkness, it is merely nothing, the absence of Love, the absence of good, the absence of everything. But it is still a part of the infinite supreme. The darkness is merely a receptacle for the light of the infinite supreme. The only difference between the light within and the light without is that the light within is not infinite, it has form and limits. The light within is what most religions call God.

I hope that helps some.
I would like to ask where do you get all these certainties from exactly? have you communion?
 
polpol
 
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 03:20 pm
@William,
This is all so weird. I'm surprised that someone like Jeeprs would get so upset by someone like trismegisto. I got the impression that it is Jeeprs that gave a spanking to Trismegisto and Trismegisto reacted like a child who says "it didn't even hurt!" while trying not to cry. Trismegisto just wanted to express himself and he has the right to say whatever he wants. I don't see why we should hurt his feelings, it's not like he is promoting some ethnocide or something. I don't take him too sereously although I must agree with him that each and every one of us can gain some wisdom solely through personal expereance. He doesn't have to abide by any rules such as belonging to a specific school of thought, or having to produce references. I have lots of respect for Jeeprs and for most people on this forum. I hope I'm not adding fuel to all this misunderstanding. So what if we just send a big hug to each other and let it go. After all we are all just human beings who need to love and be loved and anyways this is all virtual, nothing to get hung about.
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Wed 7 Apr, 2010 04:07 pm
@xris,
xris;149295 wrote:
I would like to ask where do you get all these certainties from exactly? have you communion?


From the same place that every religion, spiritualist, prophet, messiah, guru, and happy person finds any of their knowledge.

From conscious contemplation.

You should try it.
 
xris
 
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 03:48 am
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;149384 wrote:
From the same place that every religion, spiritualist, prophet, messiah, guru, and happy person finds any of their knowledge.

From conscious contemplation.

You should try it.
I don't mind the expressions but its the certainties that worry me. Once again you assume that others have not ever contemplated they have and have come to a very different conclusion. If you had a certain amount of humility your message might have more influence. I think you might find others have interesting and relevant messages if you stopped being so aggressive and listened. No ones your enemy here, not unless you choose them or encourage them to be so.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 11:45 am
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead;148597 wrote:
I will not eat them on a boat i will not eat them with a goat.

Horton heard the who? Cindy Low who.

Red Fish blue fish dead fish you fish.

Literary references aren't that neat when they don't make sense.


I did not know what hubrid means, had to look it up. Arrogant; but is taht not exactly how our fish behaves ? I had a nice receipe for pondfish; if your interested look it up.

trimegisto is a fake. He knows nothing about Hermetica. His blah,blah is typical science/new age diffusion.

He has no understanding of exchange of idea's.

I'll follow thread but not react (if I can shut up long enough)

Pepijn Sweep
Magister OXY
AMS
 
Fido
 
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 11:58 am
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;149384 wrote:
From the same place that every religion, spiritualist, prophet, messiah, guru, and happy person finds any of their knowledge.

From conscious contemplation.

You should try it.

GIGO... In other words: upon what facts do you consciously contemplate???? We must know much to think little... What do you know???
 
trismegisto
 
Reply Thu 8 Apr, 2010 08:34 pm
@xris,
xris;149524 wrote:
I don't mind the expressions but its the certainties that worry me. Once again you assume that others have not ever contemplated they have and have come to a very different conclusion. If you had a certain amount of humility your message might have more influence. I think you might find others have interesting and relevant messages if you stopped being so aggressive and listened. No ones your enemy here, not unless you choose them or encourage them to be so.



I do not see why you should feel so threatened about my certainties. I have no authority here. I can tell you the truth but I can never convince you of it. You have to come of it on your own. I can point out when wrong turns are made but I can't stop anyone along their path.

Why would you get angry at a treasure map just because you do not not how to read it? It does not make the the treasure any less real, any less valuable. You just have to keep trying to figure it out until eventually you get to the treasure.

I can tell you how to get the treasure but ultimately its you that has to go get it.

---------- Post added 04-08-2010 at 07:36 PM ----------

Fido;149645 wrote:
GIGO... In other words: upon what facts do you consciously contemplate???? We must know much to think little... What do you know???


The same facts that everyone consciously contemplates. Experience. I know everything that I have exprienced, can you say the same?
 
xris
 
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 03:01 am
@trismegisto,
trismegisto;149780 wrote:
I do not see why you should feel so threatened about my certainties. I have no authority here. I can tell you the truth but I can never convince you of it. You have to come of it on your own. I can point out when wrong turns are made but I can't stop anyone along their path.

Why would you get angry at a treasure map just because you do not not how to read it? It does not make the the treasure any less real, any less valuable. You just have to keep trying to figure it out until eventually you get to the treasure.

I can tell you how to get the treasure but ultimately its you that has to go get it.

---------- Post added 04-08-2010 at 07:36 PM ----------



The same facts that everyone consciously contemplates. Experience. I know everything that I have exprienced, can you say the same?
We may have our own treasure map. I'm not angry, its you that expresses yourself with anger. My experiences are not yours and yours are not mine. Can I convince you by reciting mine?
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Fri 9 Apr, 2010 04:31 am
@xris,
Creation of a Stoa instead of a Marketplace. If someone claims no authority, can not get his message across and dis-stresses Philosophers should person (troll) stay on ?

Do we not have an Exit button ?

I realize it is primitive but talking stops at a certain point.

Pepijn Sweep
Hermes Trismegistus Fan !
:bigsmile:
 
 

 
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