As for Sun Tzu, there are people that look at his teachings in the same way people look to the bible for guidance.

The absence of religions is precarious. Those who possess the ability control themselves would do just fine? because they would know better. Unfortunately, there are a great many who need moral and ethical guidance. We need a framework of what is right and what is not right, what is just and what is unjust, what is moral and immoral, etc. because when these systems break down, nothing gets done? and more precisely society in general breaks down. I could also say that a religious world is the lesser of the two evils so to speak compared to an atheist world because a natural world is devoid of order.

"Couldn't it be that the bible is seen as laws and something to be followed to the death just because it is "fictionalized philosophy" that somebody made a stupid misstake and trying to pass of as something better then the human way of thoughts?(wizzy)

Law in general is almost exactly that, whether they be societal, ethical, etc. Fictionalized philosophy is philosophy. That people "conceive a world with no god" is fictionalized in the same way a "god influenced world" is as well. My point is that you cannot have religion or no religion.

One can also posit the same argument for Godless revolution? instead of declaring war in the name of god, they declare war in the name of no-god? blood runs red regardless of the reason for its spilling. (French revolution and the reign of terror for example)

BTW. Here that article I promised you. Interested to hear your opinion on it.

In the name of what Sun Tzu embodies, the concept of war, there is. In the name of war, we fight instead of talk.

Do people need several conflicting ides on right and wrong? That's an excellent point! This creates confusion and factionalization.

But codified law has the conception of slavery as well. (partnerships, marriage law, agency, etc) Like it or not, master/slave mentality is ingrained in human society? but perhaps not a severe as Nietzsche.

Exactly right!!! Well reasoned! Your thoughts are not unlike the dilemma posed by Descartes and his thoughts on existence.

God does not necessarily equate to "god told me so" You could take god to mean, "that which is not understandable." T play devils advocate, Humans do not understand everything, otherwise we would never have discoveries and innovations. We understand that the universe is immeasurable and ever expanding, but there is always a polar opposite to everything we say with definiteness. There could be something that understands immeasurability. As for the French revolution, that is commonly referred to in history, especially by napoleon, as the "reign of terror." Doesn't seem to ideal to me.

I'm glad you liked it! You have very valid points and very equitable pros and cons on Buddhism and primary thoughts? well said. Indian metaphysics and cosmogony is one of my more developed interests. You refer to the principle of dukha, the pain we suffer in corporeal form striving to achieve release from the "wheel of samsara" or life.

On conflicting ideas and a single moral code. It would be easier with just a single moral code. But when a single moral code is established, there may always be a difference in beliefs. If we do dispense with the ancient moral code and adopt a new one that constantly changes, we get either get some variation of a polit-bureau or a new single authoritative system.

We don't want the new authority, because this is inherently just the same as the old one, only the masters change. If our system constantly changes, we are blindly expected to believe all small changes that happen every month given by multiple authorities? we get bureaucracy. The absence of multiple system is problematic.

As to the slave and the master. That type of slavery still exists in some form or another. In America, we call that "public welfare." In china, we call it "peoples will." In south Africa, we called is "appartide." In India, the "Harijan" caste? etc. If we say that there are only a few masters today? we give them too much credit.

When Diogenes Et. Al. established the foundations of our understanding of skepticism, this is not to say that people were not skeptical before he wrote it all down? even before he existed. Likewise, your thoughts have been thought before, and codified into philosophy. Even though you may not have read Descartes mediations, your rationale is identical.

So can the mob (the people) who oppose the politician and leader. They could say, "because comrade Marx, Trotsky, or Lenin said so."

But let me say this. I am a relativist. Everything differs from another because they all have different perspectives. I could not assert that God exists or does not exists, only the affirmation of the rational point. If we break down religions framework, we at the same time are breaking down the anti-religion framework.

Yup. All of us do. He created the framework for the modern civil code. Things were bad under the Bourbons, but were worse during the reign of terror. The French revolution should not be confused with Napoleons rise to power and quest for order. It was not that simple. Napoleon did not head the revolutionary armies against the king. This revolution is not the same as the British "glorious revolution." The French revolution was confused. People were in such a hurry to depose the king for his injustices that they forgot what to do after. They killed the catholic clergy and ransacked the churches not knowing that they were the basis of their own social system. But hungry people to crazy things.

Neither is a full on democracy a solution either. With so many individuals having their say, they begin to argue, and as the arguing becomes more intense, nothing is done. Also, true democracies have the tendency to vote themselves out of power. Furthermore, historical democracies still had people who were much more powerful than your average joe. The politicians of the day had a tendency to keep their power within their family, as well.

The folly of human thought is that we seek finality; that is, we want a permanent solution to our problems. This is naught to occur though, as human nature does not allow for such solutions. The best man can do is make a society that lasts for a couple thousand years. Past that nigh unattainable goal, all modern societies are doomed to failure some day. Sometime from now, the United States will be anarchy. The UK may be Communist, and so on and so forth. My point is that things change, so we build plans for durability, not forever.

For years I thought I am an atheist but I realized I was wrong. Although I couldn't find myself in any of religions known to me, I realized I wasn't an atheist as well...

God is a part of an atheist's life, weather we like it or not. An atheist may exclude God from him/herself but cannot exclude people he or she lives with. And they, or some of them, bring God with them...

Atheists are dear to me, they do not accept things for granted, they search for answers, and most of the atheists I knew were very intelligent people.

But do the real atheists exist?

Isn't the fear there equal for believers and atheists?

Fear reminded me of how small I am and how great everything in nature, on this Earth is. Did I believe ever or was I confused?

Today, I am an (a)gnostic/believer. I am God's creature, God's person. Although I cannot accept any known religion to be mine, I accept all people. Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Jewish, Muslims, Zoroastrians... all. I wish we all have one church together and we were not wolves to others...

I'm an athiest...and have huge problems with keeping motivated. I'm really into horseback riding, and I can honestly say that's the only thing that keeps me bothering to go to school every day. A lot of life is just...despair. If there's nothing after this then nothing matters, right? I'd find something and use it as a reason to gain motivation...and if that fails...well, I'm not a good one to ask.

People use religion to answer their questions with a simple one size fits all answer...and it gives them something to hope for. As previously said, a lot of it stems from fear. I have yet to see valid proof of a God or supreme being existing though...

Well said Monica and I loved the "one size fits all answer" line, cracked me up a little!

Anyway you seem to be fairly depressed due to the fact that you realize that there's no afterlife. And I can understand how you can feel that way.

But as a fellow Athiest, I feel that it's my duty to share in what keeps me motivated because maybe, knowing how other people with the same dissbelieves keeps themselves motivated can help you stay motivated to live in this world.

My motivation is simply that I refuse to go out like a sucker, to simplify it. As Jack Nicholson says in The Departed "I don't want to be a product of my enviorment, I want my enviorment to be a product of me", that's the motivation I have and the goal I seek. Simply to thouch the world, by good or by evil is less important, and how I effect it doesn't matter to me atleast. If it can be by the means of Sokrates, great! If it will be by the means of Shakespear, fine! If it have to be by the means of Hitler, so be it. I don't know how much this helps you but my point is: set up a goal for your self and let nothing stand in your way to get there. You only have one life as an athiest, make it worth remembering for the comming generations.

Hope I helped a little atleast

Well said Monica and I loved the "one size fits all answer" line, cracked me up a little!

Anyway you seem to be fairly depressed due to the fact that you realize that there's no afterlife. And I can understand how you can feel that way.

But as a fellow Athiest, I feel that it's my duty to share in what keeps me motivated because maybe, knowing how other people with the same dissbelieves keeps themselves motivated can help you stay motivated to live in this world.

My motivation is simply that I refuse to go out like a sucker, to simplify it. As Jack Nicholson says in The Departed "I don't want to be a product of my enviorment, I want my enviorment to be a product of me", that's the motivation I have and the goal I seek. Simply to thouch the world, by good or by evil is less important, and how I effect it doesn't matter to me atleast. If it can be by the means of Sokrates, great! If it will be by the means of Shakespear, fine! If it have to be by the means of Hitler, so be it. I don't know how much this helps you but my point is: set up a goal for your self and let nothing stand in your way to get there. You only have one life as an athiest, make it worth remembering for the comming generations.

Hope I helped a little atleast

I'm an athiest...and have huge problems with keeping motivated. I'm really into horseback riding, and I can honestly say that's the only thing that keeps me bothering to go to school every day. A lot of life is just...despair. If there's nothing after this then nothing matters, right? I'd find something and use it as a reason to gain motivation...and if that fails...well, I'm not a good one to ask.

People use religion to answer their questions with a simple one size fits all answer...and it gives them something to hope for. As previously said, a lot of it stems from fear. I have yet to see valid proof of a God or supreme being existing though...

Why are you both atheists, and what kind of proof are you looking for?

Why are you both atheists, and what kind of proof are you looking for?

I'm an athiest...and have huge problems with keeping motivated. I'm really into horseback riding, and I can honestly say that's the only thing that keeps me bothering to go to school every day. A lot of life is just...despair. If there's nothing after this then nothing matters, right? I'd find something and use it as a reason to gain motivation...and if that fails...well, I'm not a good one to ask.

People use religion to answer their questions with a simple one size fits all answer...and it gives them something to hope for. As previously said, a lot of it stems from fear. I have yet to see valid proof of a God or supreme being existing though...

One way to look at it is not in despair. Your life will be that which you create it to be. The God described in Christianity is a superbeing separate from yourself. The truth is, you are a creating being. In that you will create your life during this time. You will create despair or love or many other things. That is solely on you. There is no being out there that is going to step in and do it for you.

So make up your mind to get out of despair... and guess what! Every single day, the sun will rise in the east and set in the west. No matter how cloudy it may seem, the sun is always shinning brightly. It's a matter of how you look at it. Your day and your life will only become that of which you make of it and nothing else.

Just like a machine, they can only produce the power that is put into them and nothing else. Likewise with your life. You will only get what you put in.

So rise above the clouds dear friend and you'll see that no matter how bad it looks right here and right now, the sun still shines... all you have to do is look rise above the despairs you encounter here. Life is worthwhile and meaningful and YOU WILL NEVER DIE because you are not your body, you are a spiritual being living within a body. Your body will wear out in due time but your spirit will not and that's really who you are.

Peace!