why Religions?

@benjamin90,

benjamin90 wrote:

Hey I wonder why people have religions ..

like they have got no proof or so that for example god exists or talking about reincarnation and stuff
why they don't want to think further or so and get to the ultimate truth ?

hmm...

I make my own philosophy on how to live and I decide what's good or wrong , the side effect of it is I think is that I'm not focused and motivated at all in life on what I want you know I'm often worrying about lots of things and I'm a bit of a dreamer at the moment..
that's why I quit school for a bit (8 months, for the rest of the year), I really wasn't motivated to make efforts in school

So ya I know that we can't think any further and we cant know why we are here on this planet and stuff but for example some just stay in the religion that their parents are in I think that's dumb and made it too easy..like if they had no own head and wouldnt ask themselves several important questions you know.
As for me , my family is mostly Christian but I was tired of it so I got no religion at all now as I said before.

please let me know about your thoughts

I hope what I wrote is understandable (My native language is not English..)

regards--

Hi Benjamin and fellow european

I'm what people call an atheist, which means as you seem to do, I don't belive in any higher supernatural fairytale god or the easterbunny.

The main reason why religion work is simple, fear. Fear of death, fear of hell, fear of gods wrath, fear of what comes after death, fear to be on your own in a evil world and most of all fear of "what if they're right?". Also simple things like to refuse to realize that we aren't here to serve a higher cause or not beeing able to accept how mankind came to from other creatures as evolution have enourmous evidence to prove makes religion go around.

And for why children often stay in the same religion as their parents are simple propaganda (people are gonna hate me now) and brainwashing as they are told from the day that they are born how their religion see the world and how it was created, makes them say grace and pray for new things, then reward them with the thing they prayed for while the parents don't understand that they have been manipulated into manipulating. And if somebody claimed that everything you had ever known, that your picture of the world that makes so much sense with flawed logic and no proof apart from some book, which they see as proof, not as the fantasy novel it is. So simply: parents trick their children into beliving in something just because they belive in it.

This is ofcourse just my conclusions and theorys...
Hope I helped

*Edit
Don't know if I should have answerd in the young people forum, Justin, if I shouldn't have, tell me would you? Smile

@Wizzy,

Hm interesting post benjamin90... I was kinda going through the same thing and maybe still am Sad

I'm only 18 now. But yes... I have felt quite demotivated for the past x months or so in school. I get good grades, have applied to universities etc. But what's the point of life? I can so see what you mean! Will university help me? Give me what I want from life? And what IS the point of this anyway? Life should be fun, enjoyed, we should do what we want, be free, not having to listen to what society tells us. OK yes we must adhere to moral laws etc. but we can choose to do what we want (huh... at least we're told that). But then there's pressure from other people to do things we may not want to do or to not do what we want to do. For now I am just hoping that soon I will find something in life which I will LOVE and then I will start to enjoy my life... Wink

I am a Christian; my whole family have been. Yes I agree - you become what you grow in. Nurture is a powerful tool. But I feel I have the choice of saying religion is stupid and non-sense. The more i read the Bible, the more mad I get. Things suddenly don't make sense; i also discuss God on another forum... I believe and stuff but my nature is to question things and go in depth, not just accept what others say. What's the point of life? Why go to church every week? And all that. However, I also see some positive things about religion. The idea of some heaven seems amazing. But how to get there? What to do? And all that. But yes I do believe but maybe am partly agnostic about some things as I don't accept them as I should Very Happy

Evolution - I have also made my own theory about that... I believe God created all things but that there was a system in it. Not random and that. But that some other being controlled it. But yes - belief is belief and that's why belief is belief; i believe what i do... partly because I've always been told to believe what I do. But now I am able to make my theories. Some things don't make sense (many don't!) and I am hoping to find some reason and sense in this world... Smile

Ok I hope that helped... wish you good luck in finding some motivation in life!! Smile

@madscientist phil,

all religion is fake and ı think religions is usually using brainwashing and religions is a organic law..

only no thinkers and stupids have a religion..

religions is a created story for adults..

@ChemicalRush,

ChemicalRush wrote:

all religion is fake and ı think religions is usually using brainwashing and religions is a organic law..

only no thinkers and stupids have a religion..

religions is a created story for adults..

Religions are the result of the need for leaders, and higher being that can rule us. For some people praying is nothing else than the ability to say what's on their mind and get to feel all better having said it. For some the need is a bit bigger and they get more active with it.

Because of human nature religion got corrupted and has been ever since. I don't necessarily see religion as something that is evil, but something that has both evil and good in it. For some people the need to believe is so big that something like God can be their answer for a happy life.

The thing I hate about religions are the people who are obsessed with it. If you are a Christian, Catholic, Muslim, Hindu etc. I don't care, but I'm an Agnostic (meaning i don't believe in God, but there is a possibility he exists) and like to be left alone. And not be bothered by people who are offended by my believes because i eat pork meat or work on Sundays. If i am home i don't want to be bothered with people asking me if i believe in God. If i want to believe and am seeking i am sure God will take me on the right path. I don't need people to change my mind just by going door to door.

There is a lot to be said about religion, Maybe you would like to visit this site: Why does God Hate Amputees and watch this video's on Youtube to further your senses and to put arguments to what you say.

@Vasska,

Vasska
Pat Condell rocks! I love his thoughts about religion, politics and the overall world. And when he puts a funny twist on it, it makes hit statements appealing to everybody.

Also been looking around whywontgodhealamputees.com ever since I saw their films about religion and prayer, love it all.

@benjamin90,

nobody and nothings cant saying to me right..because i don let it.

@ChemicalRush,

just have to be said:
what?

@Wizzy,

Wizzy wrote:

just have to be said:
what?

I don't understand ChemicalRush either =)

@benjamin90,

ı dont need to writing for religions and god somebody..
we are a only single thing.
mm we are a atom..
atom is proton neutron and electron..
and mezons..gluons etc.
and deep..
very deep..
space is a not realy space..

@ChemicalRush,

Just to clear something up.

Atheist = Against religios beliefs.
Agnostic = No religion

I am a Christian gone agnostic gone atheist.

The process has taken many years, and I can assure you I am now against religion to great extents. And although Atheist will openly accept anyones views, however, I will question and make arguements against your views to see how much you really know.

If you are unhappy to accept arguements against your beliefs then be ready to cry XD Just Kidding Razz

@SxSnipeR,

@t SxSnipeR

Quote:

Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of the existence or non-existence of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while individual certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge

So to say they've got no religion is a bit quick. Since even if you believe in something you can be skeptical about it, and don't believe everything written down.

I'm an Agnostic who doesn't believe in God, but also don't exclude the possibility that this "God" exists in other forms than we think.

I guess I'm reading it wrong but doesn't this sound really arrogant?

Quote:

And although Atheist will openly accept anyones views, however, I will question and make arguements against your views to see how much you really know.

@Vasska,

How is it arrogant?

Most people will not freely accept others ideas. Other people just chat plain bollocks without thinking about something from any other angle but their own. Some Atheists are just like extremists from other religions, just overly against the matter.

And yes Agnostic = no religion, which is basically what you've just told me. If you wish to call it a religion because this is what you believe then please do. It is not technically a religion... like jedi... now that really is a religion.

So I'm sorry if I read it wrong, but not only agreeing with everything I wrote but in a different itteration then calling my acceptance arrogance leads me to believe this is due to your ignorance. Besides, I shouldn't be in this "youth" section.

@SxSnipeR,

SxSnipeR wrote:

How is it arrogant?

Most people will not freely accept others ideas. Other people just chat plain bollocks without thinking about something from any other angle but their own. Some Atheists are just like extremists from other religions, just overly against the matter.

True, and I'm willing to listen to any angle of the story, but there are as always boundaries. I usually avoid people who are as you call it are (religion) extremists because there is no way of having a decent conversation. We could both agree on that.

SxSnipeR wrote:

And yes Agnostic = no religion, which is basically what you've just told me. If you wish to call it a religion because this is what you believe then please do. It is not technically a religion... like jedi... now that really is a religion.

Misinterpretation have been the problem here. We both are right, but I have the urge to explain it as more than having no religion, and emphasize the fact that as an agnostic you don't deny the existence of God or anything else for that matter. You are satisfied with the simple explanation Agnostic equals no religion, which is good but not the entire picture.

SxSnipeR wrote:

So I'm sorry if I read it wrong, but not only agreeing with everything I wrote but in a different itteration then calling my acceptance arrogance leads me to believe this is due to your ignorance. Besides, I shouldn't be in this "youth" section.

I did not call your acceptance arrogance, that would be an insult to both you and me, but as i stated above the mere fact that you chose the "wrong" words to express yourself that are prone to misinterpretation.

I'm sorry that i pissed you off (which you make clear by saying "Besides, I shouldn't be in this "youth" section.") but i did not mean any harm by what i said.

I sometimes hate to talk on forums, or IM for that matter because in this kind of conversations we can't hear how people say things, and miss the vital part of the words said; emotion. We can only depend on having guessed a persons feelings right.

@Vasska,

It seems to me like everybody is in too much of a hurry to exclaim "God is dead!" (alla the madman in God is dead by Nietzsche).

To tell the truth, I have never understood the atheist position (logically that is). Its counter rationalist to me and further anti-philosophical. Its the hight of human hubris.

Think about it.

Do we really, with absolute certainty, know that god does NOT exist. Can you definitively say something does not exist because you have not seen it physically with the senses? Our buddy Descartes would have a problem with that assumption. Also, by assuming a drastic stance like "I am atheist" or "I am Religious" limits our ability to reason and rationalize. Philosophy is meant to expand, not to contract.

No, God may in fact exist, but RELATIVELY? he is dead. And much like the theory of relativity, it is just that? a theory that is widely excepted, but not fully proven.

Don't fight over who disbelieves in God the most, it doesn't solve anything.

And also, Vasska, religious extremists can uphold a decent conversation? look at Professor Ratzinger turned Pope Benedict. I have yet to read a more competent and complex Bull (catholic proclamation) more coherent than his.

To Benjamin90? A perspective-based philosophy on life is admirable and I applaud you rationale. It also seems to me like you're a budding existentialist, you might want to read up on that branch on philosophy if God cannot provide any answers. Dreaming is admirable as well. Aristotle in the metaphysics applauded Hesiod who speculated on the origins of substance as folk and story because he dared to think outside of the box. Religion can indeed limit your perspective on the universe? but then so can atheism? they are both closed systems. If you are not sure, take no view at all, yet listen to all of them. Your parents understand religion in a practical way, that is, in practice, but not in theory. Perhaps you may indeed realize that the practical approach to religion is not as viable as the cerebral method... if the practical approach is indeed un-cerebral.

If you are daring, read Albert Schweitzer's Reverence for life. It's interesting.

Proposition Six...

@VideCorSpoon,

VideCorSpoon wrote:

It seems to me like everybody is in too much of a hurry to exclaim "God is dead!" (alla the madman in God is dead by Nietzsche).

You might be right on this point.

VideCorSpoon wrote:

To tell the truth, I have never understood the atheist position (logically that is). Its counter rationalist to me and further anti-philosophical. Its the hight of human hubris.

Think about it.

Do we really, with absolute certainty, know that god does NOT exist. Can you definitively say something does not exist because you have not seen it physically with the senses? Our buddy Descartes would have a problem with that assumption. Also, by assuming a drastic stance like "I am atheist" or "I am Religious" limits our ability to reason and rationalize. Philosophy is meant to expand, not to contract.

I always found Atheism to go a bit to far and just like religious people completely shut off and ignore every fact. I will never say god does not exist, but the God we see today is completely wrong. If god existed why would he give Jimmy the bike he wanted, but completely ignore Billy's wish to walk again and live his live to the fullest? Why doesn't God do anything anymore since the bible was written? He used to let it rain frogs, kill the newborns and many other "magnificent but cruel" things that only someone with great power can do?

God is dead has been one of Nietzsche's finest sentences for it says that the god we believe in is dead, however it does not state that ALL gods are dead, so there might be another God that is watching over us that didn't make the word in 6 days, rests on the 7th, toys with humans for a few hundred years (according to the bible) and never looks back again.

I do not exclude the fact that there can be a higher power out there, but i think the God we are looking for is long since dead and something or someone else took his place.

VideCorSpoon wrote:

No, God may in fact exist, but RELATIVELY? he is dead. And much like the theory of relativity, it is just that? a theory that is widely excepted, but not fully proven.

Don't fight over who disbelieves in God the most, it doesn't solve anything.

Fighting about who disbelieves in God the most doesn't solve anything indeed. However if we don't discuss what our other options are we might just end up in the dark ages again. If you say God exists you got to prove it. If you say God exists for you, you don't have to prove the point that he exists because this God only matters for you. If you say God doesn't exist you also have to prove that, and many people are busy with it, either with science, math or any other proven laws.

VideCorSpoon wrote:

And also, Vasska, religious extremists can uphold a decent conversation? look at Professor Ratzinger turned Pope Benedict. I have yet to read a more competent and complex Bull (catholic proclamation) more coherent than his.

I have not read his conversations or books, can you give me some point that you think are decent and correct.

@VideCorSpoon,

VideCorSpoon wrote:

Do we really, with absolute certainty, know that god does NOT exist. Can you definitively say something does not exist because you have not seen it physically with the senses? Our buddy Descartes would have a problem with that assumption. Also, by assuming a drastic stance like "I am atheist" or "I am Religious" limits our ability to reason and rationalize. Philosophy is meant to expand, not to contract.

VideCorSpoon
No we don't KNOW with absolute certainty that there isn't a god, just as we can't KNOW with absolute certainty that there isn't unicorns out there. But we have to ASSUME that there isn't either of them because there isn't any proof to back up the existence of a god but if you have some I would love to hear them, especially as I have yet to see some EVIDENCE to back up anything the bible (as a example since this is the religion I have been argueing most against.. but you could take some supernatural example from any of the other world religions...) says but we can prove that alot of things it does say is crap, and nothing more. A fairytale for grown-ups to belive in, follow like laws, deny their nature for, stay stupid for and even kill for..

@benjamin90,

Firstly, if your native language is not english, you do a very good job of speaking English.

What you are asking makes a few assumptions I am very uncomfortable with.
- That theists have no logical reasons for believing in God
- That members of revealed religions are accepting certain ideas mindlessly rather than thinking further.

Firstly, I am a skeptic at heart, and primarily a rationalist. Unless I found logical reasons for believing in God, I doubt I could. Now, you can argue against my reasons, (that is for another thread) but to deny that theists have reasons, and saying "like they have got no proof or so that for example god exists" is silly. Logic is not a "science" of proofs, but of inferences. Most theists do have valid reasons for inferring the existence of God.

Secondly, you seem to think that once you accept a religion you are not allowed to continue thinking and searching for truth, and that accepting a set of beliefs is akin to intellectual laziness. This is a epistemological question, and arguments can be made for both sides. However, for me, accepting a set of beliefs as true for a rational reason, even when some do not make sense to you is more intellectually sound.

For example. I accepted Bah?'u'll?h as a Manifestation of God, and thus accepted everything He said as truth. Turns out, there are things He said that I do not understand or agree with. However, were I to determine truth based solely on my own logic or belief, I would be positing a self centered universe, which is obviously false. I have reasons for believing Bah?'u'll?h is what He is, and I accept whatever He says as truth, thus I am acknowledging that truth is bigger than me.

I will probably need to explain more, but there is my rebuttal.

Now, why do people have religion? I take it you are not asking "Why does God reveal religions?". I think people have religion so that they can become detached from the happinesses and hardships of life. If there is a higher purpose, you need to be too affected by life. You can be happy or sad, but you are not going to let those emotions control you, as you know they are marginal and fleeting. So I would say people have religion to free themselves from the binding effects of life.

@Wizzy,

First, I'd like to say I'm very impressed by these previous few responses. I'm glad a signed up for this forum.

Fist I will address Vasska.
It appears you ask three questions.
1.Why does god let bad things happen?
2.God is indeed dead and has been replaced!
3.The existence of God is relative!
4.Show me arguments from the pope!

1.To assume the question "why does god let bad things happen" is to assume that god does in fact exist (though we "know" he may not). Perhaps the problem here is that we refer to God , or "him" as folk (when I say folk god, I say a sexed(male) old white guy with a beard the size of zeus). Not that this is my view, but instead of thinking of God in the folk sense, think of God in a more abstract way? like the unified field theory of quantum physics, that is, the cosmic glue of things in general that makes everything work in virtue of their connectivity. So if God is the glue, who is unable to independently will (assumption) because he may in fact interwoven into the cosmological fabric of time and space, how could he interfere when he hands are tied so to speak? God does not have to be ensouled, you see. So our friends Billy and Jimmy's situation would seem a bit irrelevant (material wants) compared to Gods job description as cosmic glue. It sounds like you make God out to be the great shyster of our day.

So I guess we could say that god lets bad things happen because "it" has and can do nothing about it? further it's got more relevant things to do than give billy new legs

2.I'm glad you follow Nietzsche so avidly. I'd put the quote from the madman but that's too much room. So that god has been replaced by something or someone else, I'm guessing you refer to man. You could not be referring to a higher power because that would be a substitute God. I think you would enjoy transhumanist literature. It is a view I subscribe to from time to time.

3.I agree, we must discuss our options. The ultimatum I have been given is steep? Either prove the existence of god or don't. You supply the spoon and I will eat the elephant.

4."Today, a particularly insidious obstacle to the task of educating is the massive presence in our society and culture of that relativism which, recognizing nothing as definitive, leaves as the ultimate criterion only the self with its desires. And under the semblance of freedom it becomes a prison for each one, for it separates people from one another, locking each person into his or her own "ego". - Pope Benedict, 2005

Let's not forget that before Pope Benedict was Pope Benedict, he was Professor Ratzinger. The trick to reading him is not to look at benedicts robes and big white hat and big church/house, but to look and appreciate his rationale and wisdom as a philosopher. He is also a very able logician. He's critique of relativism is very interesting, that in accepting no definitive answers (which he takes to mean God) we create an elastic prison (our ego) that we cannot escape from. Do I agree with it? Well, the answer is [censored]. LOL!

Now Wizzy?

I agree with you on the matter that we must assume that neither exists. Descartes, the founder of modern philosophy and first of the rationalists, came to the conclusion that we must doubt everything to know at least something.

As for evidence, especially in the bible, that's the interesting thing to show then, isn't it. The bible was composed by (and I'm not going to put the historical facts because there boring) a bunch of leading church men of the day trying to unify the theory. It was never meant from its original conception to be taken as historical fact, it's just that when the book came into the hands of the people, they could not think abstractly about the concepts, and took the words for law. Case in point. Compare these two texts? The Bible and Aristotle's Metaphysics.

Look to the very first page in the bible (Genesis 26), "God creates man in his own image, man begets man?" Now suppose I were an atheist. I would say, this is bull right here.

Now look at Aristotle's Metaphysics, book Zeta, sub-book 7-9. "man begets man by means of generation, like to like, etc." Supposing I were an athesist, I would exclaim, "now this is rational!!! I can believe this!!! He is a philosopher!!!)

But isnt the atheist now contradicting himself? The atheist will not listen to the same argument because of the word God interjected into it.

Could it be that the leading scholars of the day when comprising the bible read and understood ancient Greek philosophy, and understood that in order for the common people to understand the abstract notions, they had to fictionalize it? So when I went to church at age seven and heard how god created the universe, could I not have been receiving the foundation for my understanding of cosmology and metaphysics that I come to know today.

One question you're probably asking yourself is "Are you, VideCorSpoon, religious?" Yes and no. Like Socrates, I tread the air and contemplate the sun with all hubris intended. Philosophers? which I certainly am not? have the luxury of proposing a specific theory and defending it.

@VideCorSpoon,

Perhaps we need a comment from Benjamin90 and those who like him ask the question "why religion?" I fear the debate has taken on a complex nature.

Also, we should keep answers and questions straight forward because this is a general forum.

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