The Selfish Nature Of All Actions

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jb21
 
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2008 10:02 am
@boagie,
self is existing without living, selfishness is derived from there,
now there are levels of selfs, the highest level of self would use himself as existing to live positively of and in an objective reality of life he would contribute though to happen, self would need to realize the existence of another self completely separate and different from himself, for an objective reality outside to feel inn, not to change anything but only to be alive as him experiencing being positively acting somewhere out of him, then some objective truths could come out of those realities meetings experienced, that would constitute some fundamentals basics of life self, like the truth of loving life not only because it gives self something to do as himself, but mostly because of those interactions with any otherself given self precious keys about absolute any limited self is from, that proove how a self cannot be a destination but it is always where to go from,

that is how life is never about self but about someone else, anyone is alive only from the fact that another reality of life is looking up to him, and the reason of that objective fact is the truth, the ground where they both meet that instantly become living from life truth belonging to noone
so the projections of self in another are wrong, compassion should be justified of that objective positive truth of life, we dont live to suffer, any sign of life is of truth that mean absolute happiness completely free for happiness itself
 
Richardgrant
 
Reply Sat 18 Oct, 2008 03:33 pm
@jb21,
jb21
I see all life as being a reflection of itself, everything that is, is a reflection of everything that is. There are no two things in the universe, all is a reflection of the Oneness, the driving force of life is for like to seek like, forever seeking itself within itself, this give us apparent time and motion, so all my actions good or bad are reflected back to me
 
jb21
 
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 01:13 am
@boagie,
oneness is related to spiritual ground of life based on objective interactions truth, oneness is never about self
 
Khethil
 
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 04:16 am
@Richardgrant,
Richardgrant wrote:
I see all life as being a reflection of itself, everything that is, is a reflection of everything that is. There are no two things in the universe, all is a reflection of the Oneness, the driving force of life is for like to seek like, forever seeking itself within itself, this give us apparent time and motion, so all my actions good or bad are reflected back to me


SideNote: I really need to read your material, there's something in this that hits home that I don't quite understand.

In any case, its potentiality does speak well to the theme of this thread and is quite relevant.
 
boagie
 
Reply Sun 19 Oct, 2008 06:46 am
@Khethil,
Smile YO!!!

I second the motion, there is something there me thinks but I cannot quite grasp it, is there anyway to underline, to demonstrate, said insight? Presently it feels a bit like an intimation, or a connotation that is not quite clear. Perhaps that is all that is possible, an intimation.
 
Rose phil
 
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2008 08:13 pm
@boagie,
A Zen Story - The Stingy Artist

Gessen was an artist monk. Before he would start a drawing or painting he always insisted upon being paid in advance, and his fees were high. He was known as the "Stingy Artist."

A geisha once gave him a commission for a painting. "How much can you pay?" inquired Gessen.

"'Whatever you charge," replied the girl, "but I want you to do the work in front of me."

So on a certain day Gessen was called by the geisha. She was holding a feast for her patron.

Gessen with fine brush work did the paining. When it was completed he asked the highest sum of his time.

He received his pay. Then the geisha turned to her patron saying: "All this artist wants is money. His paintings are fine but his mind is dirty; money has caused it to become muddy. Drawn by such a filthy mind, his work is not fit to exhibit. It is just about good enough for one of my petticoats."

Removing her skirt, she then asked Gessen to do another picture on the back of her petticoat.

"How much will you pay?" asked Gessen.

"Oh, any amount," answered the girl.

Gessen named a fancy price, painted the picture in the manner requested, and went away.

It was learned later that Gessen had these reasons for desiring money:

A ravaging famine often visited his province. The rich would not help the poor, so Gessen had a secret warehouse, unknown to anyone, which he kept filled with grain, prepared for these emergencies.

From his village to the National Shrine the road was in very poor condition and many travelers suffered while traversing it. He desired to build a better road.

His teacher had passed away without realizing his wish to build a temple, and Gessen wished to complete this temple for him.

After Gessen had accomplished his three wishes he threw away his brushes and artist's materials and, retiring to the mountains, never painted again.
 
boagie
 
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2008 08:30 pm
@Rose phil,
Rose,Smile

Yes it is a nice story, but the point made in this thread is that no matter what an individual does, be it helpful to another or harmful to another, the performance of an action, is first the fulfillment of the will of the individual, thus it is said to be, first selfish. One cannot act unless one wills it, and the action fulfills the will. Will= selfserving purpose through action = selfish. The moral of that story you presented, is it not that we cannot know what motivates another through our own judgement? I think that is why people like reading novels, they get to know what motivates the hero/heroin, were in real life its a shot in the dark.
 
Rose phil
 
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2008 09:20 pm
@boagie,
Well I tried to come up with a selfless example story but I'm too tired.
As a child, I fought my siblings for a scrap of bread.
And I'm practically an angel. :bigsmile:
So I guess if I can be that selfish anyone can.
I preferred the nice Zen story but never mind.
The rose coloured glasses have to come off every now and then - I suppose.
 
boagie
 
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2008 11:42 pm
@Rose phil,
Rose,Smile

I would not let what I had to say dishearten you about humanity, it is simply the way we function, how it comes about that we act. It does not mean that there is no altruism, in fact the process of feeling compassion for another must occur through identificaton with. So the will is affected by the given circumstance of another, it then becomes the will of our hero to aid another, it takes nothing away from the virtue of the act, but simply underlines the process of how it comes about. It was a very nice story, showing how wrong we can be in our judgements of others, the painter was indeed a very compassionate man, he did not wear his motivation on his sleeve, and the judgment passed upon him was indeed unjust,
 
Richardgrant
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 12:33 am
@boagie,
As I awaken to who I am, I find myself being less judgmental, where I dont see the differences, where in actual fact there is no such thing as good or bad, right or wrong. all is in divine order,
 
boagie
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 12:48 am
@Richardgrant,
Smile RichardGrant,

"There is no such thing as right or wrong, only thinking makes it so." William Shakespeare

"To god all things are right and good, only to man, some things are and some things are not." Heraclitus

You are in good company sir!!
 
TickTockMan
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 01:15 am
@Rose phil,
Rose;29421 wrote:
The rose coloured glasses have to come off every now and then - I suppose.


As long as you keep the lenses of the rose colored glasses clean, there is no need to remove them.
 
Rose phil
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 06:23 am
@boagie,
boagie;29425 wrote:
Rose,Smile

I would not let what I had to say dishearten you about humanity, it is simply the way we function, how it comes about that we act. It does not mean that there is no altruism, in fact the process of feeling compassion for another must occur through identificaton with. So the will is affected by the given circumstance of another, it then becomes the will of our hero to aid another, it takes nothing away from the virtue of the act, but simply underlines the process of how it comes about. It was a very nice story, showing how wrong we can be in our judgements of others, the painter was indeed a very compassionate man, he did not wear his motivation on his sleeve, and the judgment passed upon him was indeed unjust,



Forget about it. I was tired and being silly. :flowers:

Here's a joke I think you might like.

There are two statues in a park; one of a nude man and one of a nude woman. They had been facing each other across a pathway for a hundred years, when one day an angel comes down from the sky and, with a single gesture, brings the two to life.

The angel tells them, 'As a reward for being so patient through a hundred blazing summers and dismal winters, you have been given life for thirty minutes to do what you've wished to do the most.'

He looks at her, she looks at him, and they go running behind the shrubbery. The angel waits patiently as the bushes rustle and giggling ensues. After fifteen minutes, the two return, out of breath and laughing.

The angel tells them, 'Um, you have fifteen minutes left, would you care to do it again?'

He asks her 'Shall we?'

She eagerly replies, 'Oh, yes, let's! But let's change positions.
This time, I'll hold the pigeon down and you **** on its head.'
 
Rose phil
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 06:43 am
@Richardgrant,
Richardgrant;29430 wrote:
As I awaken to who I am, I find myself being less judgmental, where I dont see the differences, where in actual fact there is no such thing as good or bad, right or wrong. all is in divine order,



Hi! Richard, :flowers:

I love your way of thinking. Probably because it is also my way of thinking. I Awoke after reading and re-reading a book called The Masterkey System. That was just the beginning of a long and sometimes hard journey. I climbed a ladder and each rung was labelled; Occult, Mysticism, Metaphysics, Positive Thinking, Bible, Psychology, Philosophy, and Zen Buddhism. And I'm not done climbing. I feel like an observer of this world. And nothing maters and everything just works out when we stop worrying about it not working out. I believe we are our own God. I also believe we each live in a world of our own making with our own beliefs and concepts, expectations and desires. And that we cause our own suffering and pain from the thoughts we think. I believe the quality of our thoughts determines the quality of our life.

I hope I didn't come across above like a Rambling Rose. Take care. I hope to see more video talks of yours.
 
Rose phil
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 06:53 am
@Rose phil,
Thanks again, Bogie.

I'm trying, and sometimes I'm very trying. Smile

I decided a long time ago that if I had to be a pessimist I would try to be an optomistic pessamist. I think it worked. But when fatgued and reduced to a child-like state it can be difficult.
 
Fairbanks
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 11:49 am
@boagie,
boagie wrote:
Rose,Smile

why people like reading novels, they get to know what motivates the hero/heroin, were in real life its a shot in the dark.

Smile
The story has a touch of Boccaccio, that is, just enough author intrusion to make the meaning clear. Wouldn't be surprised to find it is indeed the basis of one of his famous ironic tales.
 
boagie
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 12:06 pm
@Fairbanks,
Fairbanks:)

I am not familar with said Baccaccio, anything like the irony of O' henry?
 
Fairbanks
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 12:08 pm
@boagie,
boagie wrote:
Fairbanks:)

I am not familar with said Baccaccio, anything like the irony of O' henry?

:cool:
Indeed, yes, indeed.
 
Fairbanks
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 12:15 pm
@Rose phil,
Rose wrote:
. . . I climbed a ladder and each rung was labelled; Occult, Mysticism, Metaphysics, Positive Thinking, Bible, Psychology, Philosophy, and Zen Buddhism. . .

:a-ok:
Haven't seen this cartoon lately, and even if I had a copy I wouldn't know how to post it here. Shows a man working in his garden, the rake, shovel, hoe, all that, just everyday work in the garden not paying any attention to anything. Then a passing monk invites him to go on the journey and he leaves his home and garden and takes class after class from master after master and learns technique after technique and becomes himself a master. Last frame he is back in his garden with the rake and hoe and shovel not paying attention to anything.
 
Billy phil
 
Reply Sun 26 Oct, 2008 02:54 pm
@boagie,
boagie;29418 wrote:
Rose,Smile

Yes it is a nice story, but the point made in this thread is that no matter what an individual does, be it helpful to another or harmful to another, the performance of an action, is first the fulfillment of the will of the individual, thus it is said to be, first selfish. One cannot act unless one wills it, and the action fulfills the will. Will= selfserving purpose through action = selfish. The moral of that story you presented, is it not that we cannot know what motivates another through our own judgement? I think that is why people like reading novels, they get to know what motivates the hero/heroin, were in real life its a shot in the dark.


It's hardly worth creating a whole 'nother thread called the unselfish or selfless nature of all actions, but that thread is based on the premise that no matter what an individual does, be it helpful to another or harmful to another, the performance of an action, is first the fulfillment of the will of GOD, thus it is said to be, first selfless. One cannot act unless GOD wills it, and the action fulfills the will of GOD.

Billy
 
 

 
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