But a convulsion is a totally different thing than tripping, slipping on ice, or falling down the stairs. A convulsion is a subconscious action like breathing. The other are involuntary, but still happen at the conscious level.

Voluntary:
done or undertaken by free choice

Desire:
To wish or long for; want.

Every action intended (voluntary) isn't necessarily desired. Desired implies the action was considered, and emotional connection made -- wanting. Every step walking down the street is voluntary, but each step doesn't involve the subject consciously *wanting* the next step to take place. It's something not even thought or considered about, usually.

Not all actions are voluntary, and in these cases there would be no intent at all. Therefore, we cannot say all actions are of self-intent. And, from what I've noted above, we cannot say that even all voluntary actions breathe desire, as desire is a product of consideration, and consideration is not present during every voluntary action.

Zetherin:)

While you can fool with terminology, but intent infers the desire to do, to take action consciously, if you think that you walk without intent, well then we have nothing to discuss. I have already delt with body consciousness and the involentary necessary functions such as breathing and heart rate in an above post.

Do you consciously consider every step you make and desire it?

If not, we have nothing to discuss, you're right. If so, I'd like to know how you haven't gone crazy already.

Theaetetus:)

Convulsion is involentary, tripping is one would think involentary, there is a body consciousness which takes care of necessary functions like breathing and heart rate, but that is not what we think of a conscious intent, these involentary actions are in a sense automated.

You bring up an interesting distinction that must be made. There are voluntary and involuntary actions. But there are subcategories of involuntary actions. There are those that are conscious such as tripping, and there are those that are subconscious like breathing.

The conscious intent that you speak of Zetherin pretty much eliminated it as a meaningful distinction. Walking is a voluntary action with conscious intent, and each successive step is voluntary, but is not done with conscious intent. People would go insane on a regular basis while doing repeated actions if there was conscious intent behind each one.

Theaetetus,

Tipping becomes conscious, it is not intended, again breathing is handled by body consciousness automated for lack of a better word, it is not intentional in the usual sense. Again, with walking, there is intent to walk, if then it is taken over by body consciousness then you have relatively involentary action, there is an element of this I suppose as when one is driving, it becomes to some extent automated, but you must first intend to drive. I would to maintain that in the process of walking, in the process of driving a certain portion of the brain is devoted to the intent, othewise you would cease the process.

I would to maintain that in the process of walking, in the process of driving a certain portion of the brain is devoted to the intent, othewise you would cease the process.

The action presupposing actions that follow (further steps, continuation of driving) may be of intent, but this does not imply every voluntary action following must be on of intent. Those further steps and that continuation of driving are voluntary, yet we aren't consciously considering every second to desire the action.

According to you, the first action desired through any chain of events, regardless what it was, must mean that we're desiring every action that follows. This is not always true, as we've noted. Again, back to the hypothetical, if I'm tripping and for a split second decide where to land my other foot-- without time to apply any emotional attachment (desire) -- this would be an action that followed from an action I may have desired (walking), but it would not have been desired. Did you desire to plant your foot in the dog ****, accidentally, in order to catch your balance?

This thread should now be called "The Selfish Nature of All Intentional Actions" considering action is defined in such a way that only desired, intended actions fall under consideration.

This thread should now be called "The Selfish Nature of All Intentional Actions" considering action is defined in such a way that only desired, intended actions fall under consideration.

Actually, it should be called "The Self-Intent of All Voluntary Actions".

Because, as I've noted, Self-Intent ≠ Selfishness. Placing "Selfish" in the mix completely butchered this thread. Boagie did not mean to bring morality into the picture at all -- this comes after the fact.

Boagie, I stand corrected. I now see where you are coming from.

Thanks for the discussion.

Thank you all for relieving me of a great frustration, it is much appreciated!!

It's your thread, Boagie, I'll end it if you'd like.

Aedes,

Thank you Aedes, I think that would be most appropriate.