and making the assumption that such things said is true isn't all that bad of an idea, especially when there are no known countervailing reasons to think what is said is not true.

Assumptions aren't always as bad as some may make them out to be.

Hi Emil,

I would never refer to anyone as a moron.

excuse my post, Apparently I'm a bit odd, anyway.

E=mcsquared (can't find little 2 on keyboard, so use (squared) in its' place)
That's written, and quite a few people believe it.

Anyway, sorry to cause a problem.

Thank you, and journey well.

Mark...

Your writing style is very odd.

.

People are predicted because are weak and lazy. Therefore angels know the future

Well, that's certainly a strong argument.

The destiny is way of sin.

Freedom is way just.

God knows all history of mankind. He knows the future of the people and the states. It is not necessary to be god to understand that the person is captive of circumstances. People are predicted because are weak and lazy. Therefore angels know the future. People can't change world history. Ha Ha!. They can't change own destiny. They are cowardly and lazy and weak. Therefore are predicted. God sees all. But it is free world. The future can be changed. The sin does us by slaves. The sin (laziness, passivity, cowardice) kills Freedom.

Yes, it seems intentionally designed to avoid saying anything clear. Maybe that is stylish these days. Or maybe only in Wales. A land of poets.

Nice to meet you.

Does God know the outcome of the seed He planted? Yes. for He is at the end (everlasting to everlasting) And can a mortal intervene with the will of God, therefore, overpowering His will? No. Is the Book of the Lamb variable? No. So how can mortal man alter, what has already been set in stone, by God (Biblical God)? He can't!
If God Exists , my friend, then destiny (fate) is an absolute.

Well, that's certainly a strong argument.

People are predicted because are weak and lazy. Therefore angels know the future

I'm sitting at the edge of the ramp with my motorcycle contemplating making the jump. I don't know if I'm going to attempt it or not, but whatever the case may be, it's my choice. I will decide whether or not I make that jump, for God has given me the ability to make choices of my own free will. Yes, God knows what choice I will make, for He knows everything, but I will not make the choice I will BECAUSE God knows what choice I will make. I will make the choice I will because, well, I'm an idiot that doesn't always think ... Yee Haw!

I apologize for not reading the complete thread and if this point has already been made I beg your forgiveness.

I do not believe in god but do believe the future is known and if god existed his knowledge of my choices would not in any way make his possibility impossible.

I see life a bit like a film, a book, a story ...one that I write, I act out. It is my story, I write it with other stories interacting with mine. If you could record it and then make that available to view before my life story began...would it change my story, my ability ? I dont think so.

God's knowledge of what we will do has no causal effect on the choices we make.

Yes, things will happen just as He knows they will; moreover, we will do exactly what He knows we will, but notice that I didn't say we must do as He knows we will. That's counterintuitive to you isn't it! It used to be to me as well.

Funny thing is, even after understanding the relationship between "will" and "must," that still didn't alleviate the original intuition.

Here's a summary of the relationship: "must" implies "will", but "will" doesn't imply "must," so "must" is stronger than "will." Henceforth, if I must do X, then I will do X, but if it's only the case that I will do X, that's not to say I must do X.

But, the question still grips you doesn't it! How can it be (I hear you scream!)? How can it be that it's not the case we mustn't do what we will when God knows what we will do?

I opened up my mail, and in one of the envelopes was my registration for my vehicle, and on the back of the registration, it reads something to the effect that people convicted of a sex offence must register with the Sheriff's office. It's apparently a standard note printed on all registrations in South Carolina now. What's interesting about this is that it says what a person must do. "Must" they say.

Language. Isn't it just wonderful? Words! They have meaning-all of them, so far as I can tell. But, I have this strange feeling that the word "must" is ambiguous and that our use of "must" on this forum doesn't always equate with how it was used on my vehicle registration.

There is a difference (a difference, I tell you) between a necessary truth and a contingent truth. Not every proposition is true, but every proposition that is true is either necessarily true or contingently true. So, what has this to do with anything? A lot. The word "must" is being used as is the word "necessary."

Consequently, when I use the word "must" and compare it to "will," you just might not quite grasp just what it is I'm saying exactly, so let's go over it again.

The implications of what you hold to be true is that all true propositions are necessary truths, but that's just simply not the case. You do have a choice whether or not you put on a seatbelt, and although God already knows what choice YOU WILL MAKE, the choice is still yours; thus, if you choose to put on a seatbelt, then it's true (contingently true) that you put on a seat belt, and if you choose to not put on a seatbelt, then it's still true (and still contingently true) that you put on a seat belt; furthermore, so long as it's contingently true (and thus not necessarily true), then it's not the case (hear me now) not the case (I say) that it was something you had to do. It was never a must. You made the choice. God simply knew what choice you would make.

I hope you made the right one.

If everything we did was something we had to do, then I do say that you aren't going to have much explaining to do when it comes time to explain your sin-since, if everything you will do is something you must do, then you have no moral responsibility for your actions.

Hi Xris,

I also believe my fate unavoidable. And believe in no God that is already fixed by mankind.
I'll keep this short, because my connection is sure to disconnect.

Thank you Xris, and fare well.

Mark.

The principle of charity if your friend!

Natural language:


Refined language interpretation:

1. If people are predicted because are weak and lazy, then angels know the future.
2. People are predicted because are weak and lazy.
Thus, 3. Angels know the future.

Voila! A valid argument for you. The premises are of course .....

As it is said in Korean, "dunkoo".

Hey, what is this "voila" stuff?

From what you have said, I understand that you have a belief, and I understand that the belief you have is that the future is known, but what I don't understand is who you think has such knowledge. Other than God, I can't imagine whom you might think that is, and since you don't believe in God (and I'll just take that to mean you do not have a belief that He exists), I can only imagine agents (e.g. people) as possible candidates of who can know the future, yet because we (the people) cannot know the future, we don't know the future [for all events].

Even if we could know the future (not that we can-but just sayin' if), that's not to say that the future must be the way it will. It will be the way it will, but it won't be that it must be the way it will; hence, all future events won't thus be necessary events; they will be contingent events-and the recognition of that is (as I like to say) important.

The principle of charity is your friend!

Natural language:
Refined language interpretation:

1. If people are predicted because are weak and lazy, then angels know the future.
2. People are predicted because are weak and lazy.
Thus, 3. Angels know the future.

Voila! A valid argument for you. The premises are of course .....