The Fatal Paradox

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kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 08:29 am
@Emil,
Emil;164491 wrote:
I'm thinking "voila" is a pretty common expression in english, unlike, say, ceteris paribus.


Yes, I agree, But you used to be much less tolerant. As people get older, they start to bend their principles. Happens in politics, happens in writing and speaking.
 
Emil
 
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 11:38 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;164588 wrote:
Yes, I agree, But you used to be much less tolerant. As people get older, they start to bend their principles. Happens in politics, happens in writing and speaking.


Well, I just turned 21...
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 01:03 pm
@Emil,
Emil;164643 wrote:
Well, I just turned 21...



The brain keeps softening. By the time you are 23 you may join Reconstructo in his admiration of Hegel and butterfly chasing.
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 01:41 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;164664 wrote:
The brain keeps softening. By the time you are 23 you may join Reconstructo in his admiration of Hegel and butterfly chasing.


You make the prospect of aging sound so depressing, ken.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 03:27 pm
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;164680 wrote:
You make the prospect of aging sound so depressing, ken.


Oh, it is. As the actress, Betty Davis said, "Getting old is not for sissies".
 
Emil
 
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 03:32 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;164699 wrote:
Oh, it is. As the actress, Betty Davis said, "Getting old is not for sissies".


I suppose this is why we give people presents at their birthdays. To make them forgot the sorrow it is getting older.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 15 May, 2010 03:44 pm
@Emil,
Emil;164701 wrote:
I suppose this is why we give people presents at their birthdays. To make them forgot the sorrow it is getting older.


It is nice of you to think that. Actually, it is because the donors of the presents are so relieved that they are not so old as the receivers.
 
ughaibu
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 03:10 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;164704 wrote:
Actually, it is because the donors of the presents are so relieved that they are not so old as the receivers.
Difficult to support, as young kids receive the most presents. How does your theory work out with wedding presents?
 
Emil
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 08:35 am
@ughaibu,
ughaibu;164869 wrote:
Difficult to support, as young kids receive the most presents. How does your theory work out with wedding presents?


I thought the same. Given that the most presents that I ever got was from my mother, a person that is necessarily (maybe not logically, but physically at least!) older than I. I figure it's the same with most people, that is, they got most of their presents from their parents or grand-parents.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 08:38 am
@ughaibu,
ughaibu;164869 wrote:
Difficult to support, as young kids receive the most presents. How does your theory work out with wedding presents?


Exactly the same thing.
 
mark noble
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 03:59 pm
@kennethamy,
Hi guys,

Have we stopped discussing fatalism here then?
Anybody viewing will think so.

Thank you gentlemen, be well.

Mark...
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 04:13 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble;165025 wrote:
Hi guys,

Have we stopped discussing fatalism here then?
Anybody viewing will think so.

Thank you gentlemen, be well.

Mark...


What else would you like to discuss? I thought things were pretty much understood.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 04:13 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble;165025 wrote:
Hi guys,

Have we stopped discussing fatalism here then?
Anybody viewing will think so.

Thank you gentlemen, be well.

Mark...


What would you care to say about fatalism? (You do hop around so that it is hard to keep up with you).
 
mark noble
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 05:22 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;165029 wrote:
(You do hop around so that it is hard to keep up with you).

Hi Ken,
I hop around? - You stray a little too.
But I do enjoy our encounters.

I was hoping to see a little more on fatalism, that's all. It seems to me that it doesn't matter one way or the other, as to whether fate is avoidable or not. I don't believe it is, but can never grant this belief any surety. I'm not even sure that anything can be known for sure.

I had a car crash 2 days ago, and it was truly unavoidable - I could have done a million things differently, and it may never have occured, but, I didn't, and it did.

This is the foundation of my belief:
[CENTER]Either, we are planned to be random
Or randomly planned?[/CENTER]

Where do each of you stand on this?

If this thread has truly fizzled out, I'll dissappointingly unsubscribe.
Thank you guys, and wander well.

Mark...
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 05:32 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble;165055 wrote:
Hi Ken,
I hop around? - You stray a little too.
But I do enjoy our encounters.

I was hoping to see a little more on fatalism, that's all. It seems to me that it doesn't matter one way or the other, as to whether fate is avoidable or not. I don't believe it is, but can never grant this belief any surety. I'm not even sure that anything can be known for sure.

I had a car crash 2 days ago, and it was truly unavoidable - I could have done a million things differently, and it may never have occured, but, I didn't, and it did.

This is the foundation of my belief:
[CENTER]Either, we are planned to be random
Or randomly planned?[/CENTER]

Where do each of you stand on this?

If this thread has truly fizzled out, I'll dissappointingly unsubscribe.
Thank you guys, and wander well.

Mark...


But haven't we already gone over this? I think most people in this thread have already articulated their stance on fatalism. Perhaps you're just not receiving the answers you're looking for?
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 05:46 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble;165055 wrote:
Hi Ken,
I hop around? - You stray a little too.
But I do enjoy our encounters.

I was hoping to see a little more on fatalism, that's all. It seems to me that it doesn't matter one way or the other, as to whether fate is avoidable or not. I don't believe it is, but can never grant this belief any surety. I'm not even sure that anything can be known for sure.

I had a car crash 2 days ago, and it was truly unavoidable - I could have done a million things differently, and it may never have occured, but, I didn't, and it did.

This is the foundation of my belief:
[CENTER]Either, we are planned to be random
Or randomly planned?[/CENTER]

Where do each of you stand on this?

If this thread has truly fizzled out, I'll dissappointingly unsubscribe.
Thank you guys, and wander well.

Mark...


How could what is fated be avoidable? It would be a contradiction in terms, since X is fated entails X must happen. And what has whether anything is known for sure have to do with it? Better stick to literature.
 
Zetherin
 
Reply Sun 16 May, 2010 06:05 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;165062 wrote:
How could what is fated be avoidable? It would be a contradiction in terms, since X is fated entails X must happen. And what has whether anything is known for sure have to do with it? Better stick to literature.


I find there to be a lot of confusion in mark's post. First, there's almost no consistency in regards to the words he's using to describe his stance on fatalism - I see "random" thrown around with "planned" and "fate" thrown around with "unavoidable", and so on. And I'm still not sure what he means when he says "know", "unavoidable", or "fate". And I say this because he says things like "to whether fate is avoidable or not", when what it means to say something is fated is that it cannot be avoided. So, it seems to me that he's not bothering to understand what the terms he's using mean.

The bottom line is, it seems difficult to discuss these sorts of matters with those who haven't taken the time to understand the groundwork, or with those who choose to be willfully ignorant of the terms. If there is no agreement or understanding of the words we're using, we're all up the creek without a paddle.

And then we have things like this:

Quote:
I'm not even sure that anything can be known for sure.


which just illustrate how confused he really is. And it makes me wonder how to approach this matter, since his mindset, I think, prevents him from differentiating the true from the false. In fact, I don't even know if he thinks things can be true or false.
 
fast
 
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:19 am
@Zetherin,
Zetherin;165068 wrote:
which just illustrate how confused he really is. And it makes me wonder how to approach this matter, since his mindset, I think, prevents him from differentiating the true from the false. In fact, I don't even know if he thinks things can be true or false.


Things are not true or false. Propositions are true or false. Though I think you know this, I don't think Mark Noble does.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:21 am
@fast,
fast;165274 wrote:
Things are not true or false. Propositions are true or false. Though I think you know this, I don't think Mark Noble does.


Or cares? ................

---------- Post added 05-17-2010 at 09:23 AM ----------

Zetherin;165068 wrote:
In fact, I don't even know if he thinks things can be true or false.


Or cares?...............
 
fast
 
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:46 am
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;165276 wrote:
Or cares? ................


He may.

.................
 
 

 
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