Can we improve society through improving the brain?

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Solace
 
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 10:34 pm
@manored,
odenskrigare;77802 wrote:
Again, posthumans will probably not instigate violence against humans. If armed conflict breaks out at all (that's a big "if"), I would imagine humans would be more likely to have started it.


Oh I see, it's a big "if". You see I was confused, cuz earlier in the thread you made it sound like it was more than just an "if" that there would be armed conflict when you said things like:

odenskrigare;77265 wrote:
Well ... I can see some ways that accelerating developments in technology could threaten ordinary humans. Out of all the possibilities discussed by people like Hugo de Garis and Nick Bostrom, two come to mind most strongly:


  • Posthumans exist in small enough numbers to feel a potential threat from humans, yet large enough to threaten humans. Armed conflict could break out.
  • Posthumans go all Robespierre on humans and just wipe them out in disgust.


The first, I think is more likely than the second, but both can be preempted very easily if everyone is on the same boat.


and

odenskrigare;77305 wrote:
And, remember, a huge rift between posthumans and regular humans could lead to conflict between the two sides. That's a very strong reason to elect for brain modification in itself.


You see, this doesn't sound like you're making a friendly suggestion, but rather like you're trying to scare people into get their brains changed. But if I mistook you you can always blame it on my flawed brain.

odenskrigare;77802 wrote:
Why is it so upsetting?


Why is what so upsetting, the idea that someone might tell me that I have to get my brain modified or the idea that this might lead to war? Do I really need to answer such questions?:perplexed:

odenskrigare;77802 wrote:
Do you disagree with neural modification to cure ailments?


If, and only if, the patient consents to the surgery, or in the case of those patients lacking the mental faculty to legally make such decisions, only if whomever is their legal guardian/next of kin consents.


manored;77820 wrote:
Im actually against all forms of oaths, no one can foresee how things will turn out.


Well that's a statement I can wholly agree with.

manored;77820 wrote:
Actually, you started that bit of the discussion =)


Before making such accusations perhaps you should reread the thread.

manored;77820 wrote:
I think it goes like this: Will is something that can be changed, so if your only reason is will, people hope that if they keep pestering you your will is change =)


Pestering someone is one thing; thinly veiled threats of annihilation that are passed off later as unlikely theoretical possibilities is something else.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 10:54 pm
@William,
William;77834 wrote:
Don't tell me! You have it figured out! God, help us. :detective:

William


Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

Nanotubes Used In The Brain Can Enhance Neuronal Excitability - Neuroscience News

[indent]Henry Markram, head of the Laboratory of Neural Microcircuitry and an author on the paper, adds: "...the new carbon nanotube-based interface technology discovered together with state of the art simulations of brain-machine interfaces is the key to developing all types of neuroprosthetics -- sight, sound, smell, motion, vetoing epileptic attacks, spinal bypasses, as well as repairing and even enhancing cognitive functions."[/indent]

So, in your eyes, that's like having a sledgehammer taken to your head.
 
William
 
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 10:59 pm
@odenskrigare,
Oden,

I sincerly hope one day your wish will be granted and someone will have the skill and talent to fix your brain with a new and improved one. I think the majority of us here on the forum will agree that there are those among us who desperately need a "tweek" here and there and I hope you are successful in your search. I don't think there is one among us who is not behind you to encourage you to never stop until your wishes are met. I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

Good Luck,
William
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Thu 16 Jul, 2009 11:15 pm
@odenskrigare,
Thanks I'm glad you could come around
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:00 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;77741 wrote:
Except that they are

Oh? Except scientist dont even know what the part of the brain that we dont use is for. They dont know know enough about the brain to start meddling, the part we dont use they haven't a clue what it's for and they no they dont know nearly enough for them to start messing with the brain.

---------- Post added 07-17-2009 at 01:04 AM ----------

odenskrigare;77802 wrote:
No my idea of a party is having a better life than we do now.

Again, posthumans will probably not instigate violence against humans. If armed conflict breaks out at all (that's a big "if"), I would imagine humans would be more likely to have started it.



Why is it so upsetting?



Do you disagree with neural modification to cure ailments?



I've said it before and I'll say it again:

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2007/09/28/controller-bong_65.jpg

But I'm glad to see you aren't insisting neural modification is a comic book fantasy anymore. You see it is becoming a reality. So, now, what do you have besides smears against transhumanists?

What has this picture got to do wiht the thread?
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:11 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;77846 wrote:
Oh? Except scientist dont even know what the part of the brain that we dont use is for.


And which part is that?

Caroline;77846 wrote:
What has this picture got to do wiht the thread?


It suggests that some users may have been under the influence of a certain mild euphoriant while they were posting.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:24 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;77850 wrote:
And which part is that?



It suggests that some users may have been under the influence of a certain mild euphoriant while they were posting.

I stand corrected Od, the 10 per cent is a myth, thanks. However, i do stand by that scientists dont know enough to start messing and it i think because that you could mess the brain up real bad because you dont know enough,http://www.edge.org/documents/day/day_hauser.htmlof

And which members were supposed to be stoned when posting and how can you tell?

---------- Post added 07-17-2009 at 01:39 AM ----------

If you dont know how it all works, how can you possibly know/account for everything when you start doing your improvements.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:40 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;77851 wrote:
I stand corrected Od, the 10 per cent is a myth, thanks. However, i do stand by that scientists dont know enough to start messing and it i think because that you could mess the brain up real bad because you dont know enough,http://www.edge.org/documents/day/day_hauser.htmlof


They are "messing with it", successfully: they clearly know enough.

Caroline;77851 wrote:
And which members were supposed to be stoned when posting and how can you tell?


I don't need to name them but their behavior suggested that they might have been stoned.

---------- Post added 07-17-2009 at 02:41 AM ----------

Caroline;77851 wrote:
If you dont know how it all works, how can you possibly know/account for everything when you start doing your improvements.


We know enough to perform implants on willing test subjects.

I'm sure doctors messed with other organs before they were fully understood. That's just the way things have to be.
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:53 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;77854 wrote:
They are "messing with it", successfully: they clearly know enough.



I don't need to name them but their behavior suggested that they might have been stoned.

---------- Post added 07-17-2009 at 02:41 AM ----------



We know enough to perform implants on willing test subjects.

I'm sure doctors messed with other organs before they were fully understood. That's just the way things have to be.

Are you sure? They maybe going ahead but that doesn't mean they know enough, my link proves that, how do you know what the long term affects are. Im all for helping people but this seems very frankenstein to me especially when it concerns changing peoples personality not the suggested medical improvements, that's where i draw the line, for instance, erradicating homosexuality. Ok so if they're successful, you agree that they dont know everything such as how the brain computes as suggested by the link i provided, so how can they possibly know all of the possible outcomes of their improvements, for instance, the long term affects.
As for the stoned members, can we please refrain from put downs, this is interesting stuff, im not directing that at you Od.

---------- Post added 07-17-2009 at 01:54 AM ----------

Hey Od, do you think they could rid the addiction gene/thing, im trying to quit smoking!!!
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 12:59 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;77858 wrote:
Are you sure? They maybe going ahead but that doesn't mean they know enough, my link proves that, how do you know what the long term affects are. Im all for helping people but this seems very frankenstein to me especially when it concerns changing peoples personality not the suggested medical improvements, that's where i draw the line, for instance, erradicating homosexuality. Ok so if they're successful, you agree that they dont know everything such as how the brain computes as suggested by the link i provided, so how can they possibly know all of the possible outcomes of their improvements, for instance, the long term affects.
As for the stoned members, can we please refrain from put downs, this is interesting stuff, im not directing that at you Od.

---------- Post added 07-17-2009 at 01:54 AM ----------

Hey Od, do you think they could rid the addiction gene/thing, im trying to quit smoking!!!


Yes, that could be possible

Also, why would any sensible person want to eliminate homosexuality

Long-term effects of any medical treatment always need to be studied and the bugs worked out
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:03 am
@odenskrigare,
Hey any chance of a link to provide me with this please?
Thanks
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:10 am
@odenskrigare,
What do you mean with "this"
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:22 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;77860 wrote:
Yes, that could be possible

Also, why would any sensible person want to eliminate homosexuality

Long-term effects of any medical treatment always need to be studied and the bugs worked out

Exactly you maybe a sensible, albeit aspiring scientist, but some will wnat to eradicate it.
Evidence that the bugs worked out please.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:30 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;77867 wrote:
Exactly you maybe a sensible, albeit aspiring scientist, but some will wnat to eradicate it.


They're dumb and the law should restrain them

Caroline;77867 wrote:
Evidence that the bugs worked out please.


Hundreds of years of history of all surgical procedures ever devised?

This time it's simply a different organ
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:42 am
@odenskrigare,
odenskrigare;77868 wrote:
They're dumb and the law should restrain them



Hundreds of years of history of all surgical procedures ever devised?

This time it's simply a different organ

Doesn't prove anything, the brain is different from the other organs, that's the point, you can't compare it to the other organs so therefore the results will not be the same as the results of the other organs. Im sorry but that's not enough evidence.
 
odenskrigare
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:50 am
@Caroline,
Caroline;77869 wrote:
Doesn't prove anything, the brain is different from the other organs, that's the point, you can't compare it to the other organs


They're all different, in some sense.

Also:

Brain implant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brain?computer interface - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

should be informative
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 01:55 am
@odenskrigare,
Thanks very much, will check them later when i have more time, have a good day.Smile

---------- Post added 07-17-2009 at 03:00 AM ----------

It all looks wonderful fascinating stuff.
 
Fido
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:25 am
@William,
William;77834 wrote:
Don't tell me! You have it figured out! God, help us. :detective:

William

How do you think he keeps his from working??? Just Iding...My parser says it is time for a dump...
 
Caroline
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 05:56 am
@odenskrigare,
I really dont see the point in insulting each other, you're losing the point of debate.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 06:01 am
@odenskrigare,
I am closing this thread. Please play nice, and quit turning threads into flame wars.

Thanks.
 
 

 
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