but alternative medicine is generally ineffectual and does kill people:

What's the harm in alternative medicine?

Maybe those women think having bigger, more rigid boobs is worth the risk of brain tumors. (Many, perhaps most women who get implants probably don't have much going on up there anyway.)

On what basis do you say my vision of the future has no chance of becoming reality?

I mean are you actually keeping up with current research and implementations, or are you just going on what you feel is true?

I'm gonna go with door #2

you wouldnt be able to see them, but i assure you everyone around you and anyone who has heard you speak will come to the same conclusion.

Maybe. And maybe the physician who took the oath just temporarily forgot about doing no harm?

Rich

That is, if all of our brains are flawed, how can we put our trust in a science that was devised by a flawed brain!?

I wouldn't want my brain touched or improved in anyway, there's nothing wrong with it as it is.

I didn't day "this was meant to happen" nor did I say "it's for the best", infact I couldn't disagree more, i wouldn't wish a tragedy on anybody not even my worse enemy. I think im more on the lines off alleviating the tragedy as it's not very nice to say to someone who's just been raped for instance, "it was for the best", or "it was meant to happen".

"Pyrrhus inherited the throne of Epirus in Northern Greece around 306 B.C., and as a young man proved himself on the battlefield again and again. Pyrrhus apparently had great strategic skills, but he also had the reputation of not knowing when to stop. In 281 he went to Italy and defeated the Romans at Heraclea and Asculum, but suffered bitterly heavy losses. The devastation led to his famous statement, "One more such victory and I am lost" -- hence the term "Pyrrhic victory" for any victory so costly as to be ruinous".

You should try to remember that Wish was also a Norse, Germanic god; and that most of us still live in his world or in the land of fate, and its fairies

You are kidding of course. Do you know how many millions of people have died of cancer after going through allopathatic treatments? Should we count these in your statistics??? Do you want me to solicit comments from all of these who went through chemotherapy and still died of cancer? You have to be kidding me, aren't you? Millions! Not just 12 or so.

Yes, people die of cancer, because the illness had gone way to far. Proper treatment early on including proper rest, diet and exercise, is the most effective way to prevent cancer.

Maybe. And maybe the physician who took the oath just temporarily forgot about doing no harm?

Okay oden, I have to ask this, have you had brain modification surgery performed on you yet? I mean, you're an avid supporter of this stuff, so I assume you were/would be first in line to get it done. Or is this stuff still in the experimental stages yet? Experimental, as in it might never be considered safe and viable for such surgeries to be performed on a normal human brain.

First thing's first, you and whatever other advocates of brain modification there are lurking out there are going to have to convince the rest of us that there is something wrong with our brains. Moreover, you're going to have to convince us that you can fix it.

And you're going to have to overcome one glaring flaw in your plot to create a superhuman, or posthuman, race. That is, if all of our brains are flawed, how can we put our trust in a science that was devised by a flawed brain!?

Or will some posthuman who has already had this surgery performed on them invent a time machine and come back in time to perform the first brain modification surgery on a normal brain so that it doesn't get screwed by a flawed human surgeon? Unless you're going to sell me something like that, I'm just going to continue to file this under "never gonna happen".

I wouldn't want my brain touched or improved in anyway, there's nothing wrong with it as it is.

I also want you to stay away from my brain.

Feel free to do whatever you might want with your brain. If I may be so bold to suggest, that brain probe stuff sounds really hot.

That oath cannot actually be accomplished, I dont know any medical intervention that doesnt causes some harm, even if it does more good than harm. And, if the person thinks losing health in name of beauty is more good than harm, I suppose its not the doctor who is to judge it.

First thing's first, you and whatever other advocates of brain modification there are lurking out there are going to have to convince the rest of us that there is something wrong with our brains. Moreover, you're going to have to convince us that you can fix it. And you're going to have to overcome one glaring flaw in your plot to create a superhuman, or posthuman, race. That is, if all of our brains are flawed, how can we put our trust in a science that was devised by a flawed brain!?

Experimental as in "it's experimental now but man I wonder how many groundbreaking surgical procedures just rot in the lab forever"

Sure when you guys are surrounded by people with godlike cognition who are living at least twice as long as you, you might come around.

I'm pretty sure the Internet didn't start out the way it is now either. It wasn't perfect. It will never be perfect. Just like humans and posthumans will never be perfect. The Internet as it stands now is just better than it was in the 70's. But apparently that's not good enough for you, so maybe you should just unplug your computer...

I hate to say this but that's awfully vain.

You appear to be under the mistaken impression that this stuff is a joke.

(It isn't.)

I wouldn't know. But I daresay we'd be both surprised and disappointed. Inovation sometimes gets overlooked. But this is beside the point. The point is, will the government allow people to perform surgeries on normal, healthy human brains?

Could the agnostic please explain what he means by "godlike cognition"? :rolleyes:

But don't worry, I don't envy others their bigger brains, nor do I lose any sleep at the thought that someday I'm gonna die.

So no, I probably won't "come around". I'll be content to let you superhumans whipe me out, because that's something that is so much better than what we mere humans would ever do to those who disgust us. :sarcastic: Yes, superior race indeed Adolf.

I should unplug my computer because I don't want to have brain surgery?

Being content that my brain is fine the way it is is vain? So wanting to improve my brain must not be vain.

You appear to be under the mistaken impression that the human brain is a joke.

(It isn't.)

Quite a few technophobes crawling out of the wood works.

So because I don't want my brain tampered with I'm afraid of technology? The OP made allusions to using this technology to make it so that people no longer commit evil acts. Let's cut through the bs, we're not talking about simply curing genetic defects or enhancing lifespans, we're talking about behaviour modification here. You might trust someone enough to allow them to determine how you behave, but I sure don't. My problem isn't that I'm afraid of technology; my problem is that I'm afraid of those people who would use technology to turn me into their idea of a more perfect human.

Well, they, that is the US government, are allowing it now.

Did you not read Zetetic's last post?

Which government btw?

Actually, I think if armed conflict broke out between humans and posthumans, it would most likely be the human camp who fired the first shot.

They just wouldn't fire the last.

Actually I hadn't read Zetetic's post before I posted the one you're referring to. He posted before that post, but after I began it. So I was being hopelessly optimistic that someone in the government would have enough sense to say, "Might elective brain surgery be an unnecessary health risk?"

Wait, didn't you say that they might just wipe us out in disgust? Didn't you, multiple times, warn that not getting on the boat of brain modification might mean war? Don't throw this back on us humans. We never even so much as mentioned the idea of killing posthumans. It was entirely your idea and you know it.

BTW, when you get your brain modified, you might want to tell the surgeon to leave alone that part of the brain that allows for aggression and all those nasty things that you wanted to rid humanity of in the OP.

Ok would you tell a rape victim "try to find the good in your situation"?

No..................................

As an aspiring neuroscientist, I can tell you the brain is pretty awesome in a lot of respects, but it too can be improved upon.

What do you mean? What is your point?
Thanks.