The United Way

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

Do you have amnesia Z? And if not perhaps you should remove it from the equation. No sense complicating something your having trouble understanding right? I am not in constant flux with regard to truth, sorry others are. Are you?
And back to square One, being a part of the universe, the universe is made up of you, Right?

=
MJA

Nope, we're still on step one. I'm sorry if you feel I'm over-complicating the matter, but I feel it essential we clarify early on to avoid confusion later. "Self" is relative, and is in constant flux -- physically nor mentally, you won't be the same person you are 10 years from now, or even 5 minutes from now. It really is this complicated. So, when you say "I'm part of this universe", are you referring to just my 'biology' at any point in time, my 'memory/consciousness' at any point in time, or 'both'?

In regards to your second question:
What do you mean "the universe is made up of you"? I am a part of the universe, a distinct part, biologically. Consciously/memory-wise, I'm honestly not that sure, as I don't know the inner-workings of my consciousness (it could be just a biological bag of tricks, or it could be a phenomenon I can't fully understand yet).

@hirukai,

hirukai wrote:

hi MJA kid...

I doubt in extremely that a perfect ent could be mixed with his creatures, that makes him manipulating for all his creatures. do you feel you can like God because of you?

It seem you like eastern fhipilosophies, they are quite beautifull, but at last contradiction raise his hand, or what is worst they stay in a russian box dolls but teaching over the trascendal way of human being in getting perfection, knowing that human are perfect as weel as tother creature, perfect as the universe, nothing in the universe is wrong.

go ahead...

Carpe Diem et Memento Mori

A Perfect Equation

=
MJA

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Nope, we're still on step one. I'm sorry if you feel I'm over-complicating the matter, but I feel it essential we clarify early on to avoid confusion later. "Self" is relative, and is in constant flux -- physically nor mentally, you won't be the same person you are 10 years from now, or even 5 minutes from now. It really is this complicated. So, when you say "I'm part of this universe", are you referring to just my 'biology' at any point in time, my 'memory/consciousness' at any point in time, or 'both'?

Yeah, I have to agree that defining the "self" is more than relevant. Though, it seems to me that this is exactly what MJA is working towards: an understanding of the self.

Zetherin wrote:

In regards to your second question:
What do you mean "the universe is made up of you"? I am a part of the universe, a distinct part, biologically. Consciously/memory-wise, I'm honestly not that sure, as I don't know the inner-workings of my consciousness (it could be just a biological bag of tricks, or it could be a phenomenon I can't fully understand yet).

You say that you are biologically distinct from the universe. How is this possible?

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Nope, we're still on step one. I'm sorry if you feel I'm over-complicating the matter, but I feel it essential we clarify early on to avoid confusion later. "Self" is relative, and is in constant flux -- physically nor mentally, you won't be the same person you are 10 years from now, or even 5 minutes from now. It really is this complicated. So, when you say "I'm part of this universe", are you referring to just my 'biology' at any point in time, my 'memory/consciousness' at any point in time, or 'both'?

In regards to your second question:
What do you mean "the universe is made up of you"? I am a part of the universe, a distinct part, biologically. Consciously/memory-wise, I'm honestly not that sure, as I don't know the inner-workings of my consciousness (it could be just a biological bag of tricks, or it could be a phenomenon I can't fully understand yet).

Sorry your so confused, but you've thrown more confusing complexity into a simple question and then failed to answer it. You don't want to complicate something so simple because simple is where the truth is.
It's where I am, and where you should be.
It's the Way

Are you part of the Universe? Y/N If it helps you, I am.

=
MJA

@MJA,

DT wrote:

You say that you are biologically distinct from the universe. How is this possible?

Not distinct from the universe, distinct from other biological entities that are part of the universe - this is uniqueness. I'm part of the universe [biologically], but I'm still a distinct constituent.

MJA wrote:

Are you part of the Universe? Y/N If it helps you, I am.

I'll play along: Yes.

Go.

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Not distinct from the universe, distinct from other biological entities that are part of the universe - this is uniqueness. I'm part of the universe [biologically], but I'm still a distinct constituent.

And what about you is biologically distinct from the universe? Everything you consume, which becomes you, is from the universe. Everything that is "you" was at one time not part of "you" and will one day be apart from "you" again. So, aside from the linguistic convenience, what makes you distinct from the rest of the universe?

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Not distinct from the universe, distinct from other biological entities that are part of the universe - this is uniqueness. I'm part of the universe [biologically], but I'm still a distinct constituent.
I'll play along: Yes.

Go.

Play? iI you want play you've come to the wrong place.
This is a thread about truth.
Do you want to work on that, the truth of yourself, the truth of the universe?
The truth of Oneness, The united Way?
If your serious, I'll help,

=
MJA

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

And what about you is biologically distinct from the universe? Everything you consume, which becomes you, is from the universe. Everything that is "you" was at one time not part of "you" and will one day be apart from "you" again. So, aside from the linguistic convenience, what makes you distinct from the rest of the universe?

It's all linguistics -- this is all wordplay to begin with. We're practically arguing over nothing... and that's the point. If we're speaking about my biology, from my perspective, I'd say "I" is defined as all the biological constituents on my body at any one point in time. You could easily rebuttal me by saying,as you just did, "Well, since all those constituents are part of the universe, you are the universe", and yet I can still attempt to retain an identity through the wordplay I've chosen by saying, "Even though all those constituents are part of the universe, "I" am not the universe - I'm part of the universe".

And if we aren't even speaking of biology, oh dear, this will just get even more tremendously complicated, as I still don't even have a firm grasp on "memory", "consciousness" and so on.

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

Play, if you want play you've come to the wrong place.
This is a thread about truth.
Do want to work on that, the truth of yourself, the truth of the universe?
The truth of Oneness, The united Way?

=
MJA

If by that you mean: I want you to elaborate on your truth, you'd have it correct.

It appears you address me as if you "have it all figured out". Bring it down a notch and address me as an equal -- a notion you so adamantly uphold, no?

@Zetherin,

That's the thing, though, Zetherin: the question of "self" is not purely linguistics. The answers have real consequences. Camus said the only real question in philosophy is whether or not to commit suicide, but I think he was wrong: first you have to know what you are ending. The primary, most important question in philosophy is "what am I?"

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

If by that you mean: I want you to elaborate on your truth, you'd have it correct. If you want me to believe your truth is superior, don't waste my time, sorry.

It appears you address me as if you "have it all figured out". Bring it down a notch and address me as an equal -- a notion you so adamantly uphold, no?

Dear Equal,

We're trying and that is good,

My truth is not superior its Universal and what truth is you?
Are our truth equal?
For me the Universe and I are One.
And so are you.
Do you see that to? Are you equal, are you One?
And if not perhaps I could help equate you with One or All.

=
MJA

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

That's the thing, though, Zetherin: the question of "self" is not purely linguistics. The answers have real consequences. Camus said the only real question in philosophy is whether or not to commit suicide, but I think he was wrong: first you have to know what you are ending. The primary, most important question in philosophy is "what am I?"

And I've pondered that question many a time, you don't have to remind me, brother.

Here's my truth, what I've come down to thus far:

I am no greater or worse than anything that has ever existed, from an objective standpoint. From a tree, to a stone, to another human, objectively, I'm no greater or worse. My "Self" is a complicated matter, and I'm not wholly convinced on any one theory yet. I'm currently in the process of doing research into consciousness, into qualia, and all subjective experience that composes the "Self". Perhaps I will make a thread within the following months regarding my findings.

Also, I have a feeling I'm not really "ending" anything, after I die. It makes more sense to me all of this a cycle of life and death -- life, nor death, is "bad" or "good". And, as you can see, I don't believe in any sort of objective morality. I believe morality is a construct of man, an application of meaning. I'm not degrading it's value within humanity, I'm merely speaking from an objective standpoint. So, when I hear, "Unity is right", I'm just dumbfounded.

Now, I understand I've gone off on tangents, but I found it important to elaborate on where I'm coming from.

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

Dear Equal,

We're trying and that is good,

My truth is not superior its Universal and what truth is you?
Are our truth equal?
For me the Universe and I are One.
And so are you.
Do you see that to? Are you equal, are you One?
And if not perhaps I could help equate you with One or All.

=
MJA

We started off well, now I'm completely lost again. Can we start with only one or two questions at a time?

@Zetherin,

I think it might be useful to consider the nature of self, at first, without attaching moral consequences to the possibilities.

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

That's the thing, though, Zetherin: the question of "self" is not purely linguistics. The answers have real consequences. Camus said the only real question in philosophy is whether or not to commit suicide, but I think he was wrong: first you have to know what you are ending. The primary, most important question in philosophy is "what am I?"

You're looking for the truth of yourself DT, the true Oneness of All.
That's the right Way to go.
If I may suggest:
Simplify your life, and your mind, And you'll find I too.
If you take the complicated equation of yourself and reduce it by removing any uncertainties or doubts, the clearity or light of truth will shine through. You'll become the light itself, Oneself, All.

For me, I found the light, I am the light, but I'm still practicing being the light and have a Ways to go. Once One is enlightened One must go down to the market place and practice the truth. The path continues equally for us All.
Thanks for sharing,
Happy trails,

=
MJA

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

You're looking for the truth of yourself DT, the true Oneness of All.
That's the right Way to go.
If I may suggest:
Simplify your life, and your mind, And you'll find I too.
If you take the complicated equation of yourself and reduce it by removing any uncertainties or doubts, the clearity or light of truth will shine through. You'll become the light itself, Oneself, All.

No, I'm not looking for the Oneness of all. Again, one implies two. To say all is one is to say that all is two, or three and so forth.

I do appreciate the sentiment, though. I have something of a spiritual life; it isn't much as I'm a poor student, but I try. I think we all try in some way or another.

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

And I've pondered that question many a time, you don't have to remind me, brother.

Here's my truth, what I've come down to thus far:

I am no greater or worse than anything that has ever existed, from an objective standpoint. From a tree, to a stone, to another human, objectively, I'm no greater or worse. My "Self" is a complicated matter, and I'm not wholly convinced on any one theory yet. I'm currently in the process of doing research into consciousness, into qualia, and all subjective experience that composes the "Self". Perhaps I will make a thread within the following months regarding my findings.

Also, I have a feeling I'm not really "ending" anything, after I die. It makes more sense to me all of this a cycle of life and death -- life, nor death, is "bad" or "good". And, as you can see, I don't believe in any sort of objective morality. I believe morality is a construct of man, an application of meaning. I'm not degrading it's value within humanity, I'm merely speaking from an objective standpoint. So, when I hear, "Unity is right", I'm just dumbfounded.

Now, I understand I've gone off on tangents, but I found it important to elaborate on where I'm coming from.

You see things equally then as yourself. That right and good,
But then you say you see yourself as a 'complicated matter', so then you must see all things that way, as you say you see them the same.
Perhaps if your looking for the truth of yourself and with the knowledge that all things are equal as you say, then all you would need to do is simplify your life as well. Truth is where simplicity is. Go there and see.
You'll find equality everywhere but it won't be so dang confusing.

=
MJA

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

No, I'm not looking for the Oneness of all. Again, one implies two. To say all is one is to say that all is two, or three and so forth.

I do appreciate the sentiment, though. I have something of a spiritual life; it isn't much as I'm a poor student, but I try. I think we all try in some way or another.

Perhaps Oneday you'll see God is One and so is 'I'.
Years ago I thought numbers were the problem with humanity, and searched for them in nature but found none. Removing those unnatural numbers frorm nature and physics equations led me to the flaw of measure, and nature's truth.
My use of One is not numerical as you write two, three and four, but rather only the universal Oneness of nature, of us All.
If One removes the uncertainty from nature's equation, no matter the symbols, the absolute equation or truth is all that remains.
= is the absolute mathematically that unites us All.
Equal does the same.
Be equal, be One, be true, be you,

=
MJA

@MJA,

I apologize for seeming brash, MJA. We're just on different wavelengths.

Be well my friend,

Zeth

@MJA,

manored wrote:

And why is it so?

You are yet to answer this, if you do not, I will have to assume the impression I have of that you avoid answering questions you cannot answer is correct, and just forget the matter.

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