The United Way

@MJA,

MJA,

Quote:

And there inlies the flaw, measure itself.
Life without measure is One.

Life without measure is not one, as one is a product of measurement.

Quote:

And if you try to measure nature's differences, as such is the practice of science, or mankind; where does the tail end and the lion begin?

Are you speaking of an infinite loop? I haven't a clue what you're implying.

Quote:

Though the tail of a lion and a lion are different,
They are truly One or the same.

Why? Does it comfort you thinking everything is "One", "united"?

Would it bother you if we're all really Two, or Three, or Four?

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

Try this,

Though the tail of a lion and a lion are different,
They are truly One or the same.
As the Universe is One as God is One as All is One, as equal makes us so.
We're Just pieces of God or of the Universe You and I, but equally or truly One or the same.
And if you try to measure nature's differences, as such is the practice of science, or mankind; where does the tail end and the lion begin?
And there inlies the flaw, measure itself.
Life without measure is One.

=
MJA

If there are different pieces, why should all seek unity?

@manored,

The Importance of Equality

There is nothing more important to the future of mankind, the future of this planet, the future of All life in this universe as we know it than the truth of equality, the truth of ourselves, the single simple truth of nature's Oneness, the unifying truth of the Universe, the powerful truth that shall set us free. There is nothing infinitely more important than knowing and living the single simple truth that God is Equal, God is One, as is One as is All, as is equally you and me. There is nothing more vitally important today than to live and to be our truest destiny.
To Just Be,

=
MJA

@MJA,

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."

-Aristotle

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."

-Aristotle

That makes no sense to me at all. But then such is much of the wise old Greeks to me, simply Greek.

Surely equality is good and right and the united Way to go.
And striving to equate All things equally right and good.
'United we stand and divided we fall', whoever said that first was truly right.
I guess it wasn't Aristotle.

=
MJA

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

Surely equality is good and right and the united Way to go.

I think it's at least worth consideration that everything united isn't the "Way to go".

To be frank, I think the whole equality concept is overrated. Surely, not everything or everyone is equal. I think people should be equal from a human rights perspective, but lumping everyone into a category of "Equality" strips uniqueness, and oversimplifies the intricate differences that make us who we are.

The quote implies that to try to make all things (that are unequal) equal is a grave error; we should not oversimplify things in this respect in order to please our notions of "peace", "love", "equality", "right, "good". Instead, we should acknowledge the differences, embrace them, not masquerading them in an effort to appease our emotions.

As for united we stand, divided we fall: That doesn't imply everyone is "Equal", but that there is joining for a cause. Unity≠ Equality in the context I'm interpreting this quote. "United" here, speaks to me, "harmony", instead of the profound "Oneness" you proclaim. It's joining together, a state of being in accord, for a cause sake -- not implying that everyone within the cause is "Equal" or "One" in every regard. This is just my interpretation, however, and I understand that.

Also, are you sure 'falling' is such a bad thing? Perhaps we need to fall from time to time.

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

The Importance of Equality

There is nothing more important to the future of mankind, the future of this planet, the future of All life in this universe as we know it than the truth of equality, the truth of ourselves, the single simple truth of nature's Oneness, the unifying truth of the Universe, the powerful truth that shall set us free. There is nothing infinitely more important than knowing and living the single simple truth that God is Equal, God is One, as is One as is All, as is equally you and me. There is nothing more vitally important today than to live and to be our truest destiny.
To Just Be,

=
MJA

And why is it so?

@manored,

Zetherin - part of the trouble is this word "equal". Might it be that everyone is equally unique?

I think I understand what you are saying: if I am 5'9" and you are 6'4" to claim that we are equal in height is obviously wrong. To say that everyone is equal depends entirely upon the context.

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

To say that everyone is equal depends entirely upon the context.

Precisely.

So, then, what exactly is the context when MJA states:

Quote:

Surely equality is good and right and the united Way to go.

And what does it mean to say:

Quote:

God is Equal, God is One, as is One as is All, as is equally you and me.

And I hear this repeated over, and over, and over again. I'm still :brickwall:

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Zetherin - part of the trouble is this word "equal". Might it be that everyone is equally unique?

I think I understand what you are saying: if I am 5'9" and you are 6'4" to claim that we are equal in height is obviously wrong. To say that everyone is equal depends entirely upon the context.

Hi DT,

I think you understand, but if not maybe this will help you if not others:

There may be a difference in height between us, but no difference in the universe or Oneness that unites us All. We are the universe, we are One. Unfortuneatly if One has been taught to focus on those differences, those uncertain differences of measure proven by science to be only probable at best, One might loose the self-evident truth of us All, that All is truly One. Many live in an uncertain divided world, searching for certainty or truth. I'm simply trying to change that view and shed some light on what truly is.
A world united would be heavenly don't you agree?
And imagine, One only has to think it to be it because united we truly or most certainly already are.

=
MJA

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Precisely.

So, then, what exactly is the context when MJA states:

And what does it mean to say:

And I hear this repeated over, and over, and over again. I'm still :brickwall:

Sorry your having such difficulty with the unity of us All.
Perhaps if I asked you a question it might help you along the Way.
I think we should try:
Are you part of the Universe?
And if so, wouldn't that make you the Universe?
And to help you see this, you hand is a part of you, Agreed?
So your hand is you, isn't it?
And if you argue there is a difference between your hand and your self,
then tell me with certainty the difference.
Where does your hand end and your self begin?
What is the difference between you and your parts?
Are your part not you?
This thread is about that flaw, that flaw of uncertain measure and the certainty or unity or truth that unites us all, that unite your parts equally to you.
And when One remove those uncertainties from the equation of Onerself as from the universe, Oneself becomes the universe becomes true.
Does that help?
=
MJA

@MJA,

Quote:

We are the universe, we are One.

Oh, ok. I disagree completely, then. I don't believe we're the universe. :poke-eye:

MJA, sorry mate, but we're just on completely different wavelengths; I haven't a clue what you speak. "Oneness that unites us All", "We are the universe, we are One". These are phrases I'd find in some ancient scripture or something, ambiguous, open for interpretation completely. You then type:

Quote:

Unfortuneatly if One has been taught to focus on those differences, those uncertain differences of measure proven by science to be only probable at best,

Using "One" with your usual upper case "O", when it seems apparent you're implying "one person" that's taught. If we're all "One", why are you making the distinction of "one person" being taught differently?

Quote:

One might loose the self-evident truth of us All, that All is truly One

And my self-evident truth is that All is not truly One. I'm waiting here for you, too! Let's see who caves in first! :whistling:

If there's anyone out there that can help decipher MJA's text, please respond here. I'd really love to know what's going on.

Quote:

Sorry your having such difficulty with the unity of us All.

And I'm sorry you're having such difficulty with the non-unity/distinction of us All.

@MJA,

Zetherin wrote:

And I'm sorry you're having such difficulty with the non-unity/distinction of us All.

Any distinction is in constant flux: there is no constant which is "I". Anything we point to as the "I" necessarily changes constantly.

MJA: According to you, the world/universe is united, so no, a world united would not be Heaven as the world is already united and this is certainly not Heaven. Perhaps you mean that when everyone recognizes the universal unity, and acts accordingly, then we would have Heaven. In other words, not only do people need to recognize universal unity as an intellectual concept, but people also need to understand and act according to the implications of the intellectual concept of universal unity.

Of course, I still object to your use of One to represent this unity as One implies Two; "to organize is to destroy". Though I am sympathetic towards the concept of monism, this is the same objection I have to monism, which appears to be your philosophy.

@MJA,

Quote:

Perhaps you mean that when everyone recognizes the universal unity, and acts accordingly, then we would have Heaven. In other words, not only do people need to recognize universal unity as an intellectual concept, but people also need to understand and act according to the implications of the intellectual concept of universal unity.

Wait right there! What does "recognize universal unity" mean, and how is it an intellectual concept? What exactly am I to recognize? This is cause of my cognitive dissonance. Help!

@Zetherin,

Are you part of the universe Z? Lets start again at square One.
Does that question confuse you?
I'm try to help,

=
MJA

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Wait right there! What does "recognize universal unity" mean, and how is it an intellectual concept? What exactly am I to recognize? This is cause of my cognitive dissonance. Help!

That was all in the context of what MJA has been saying. You would have to ask him. (I've merged two posts, and then edited the resulting post, so maybe there was some confusion in reading the post(s) prior to my edits).

@MJA,

MJA wrote:

Are you part of the universe Z? Lets start again at square One.
Does that question confuse you?
I'm try to help,

=
MJA

Ok, let us begin.

Yes, I am part of the universe, however, I say this because I have a sense of what you 'mean' by "I", not because I necessarily agree we should throw this concept around definitively. It's wordplay. Read above what DT notes: "I" is in constant flux. What really defines self? Is it our body, our consciousness, our memory? If you got amnesia, would it erase "you"? If you had different biological parts, would this change "you"? Identity is subjective to the consciousness rationalizing.

@Zetherin,

Zetherin wrote:

Ok, let us begin.

Yes, I am part of the universe, however, I say this because I have a sense of what you 'mean', but because I agree with the concept. It's wordplay. Read above what DT notes: "I" is in constant flux. What really defines self? Is it our body, our consciousness, our memory? If you got amnesia, would it erase "you"? If you had different biological parts, would this change "you"? Identity is subjective to the consciousness rationalizing.

Do you have amnesia Z? And if not perhaps you should remove it from the equation. No sense complicating something your having trouble understanding right? I am not in constant flux with regard to truth, sorry others are. Are you?
And back to square One, being a part of the universe, the universe is made up of you, Right?

=
MJA

@MJA,

hi MJA kid...

I doubt in extremely that a perfect ent could be mixed with his creatures, that makes him manipulating for all his creatures. do you feel you can like God because of you?

It seem you like eastern fhipilosophies, they are quite beautifull, but at last contradiction raise his hand, or what is worst they stay in a russian box dolls but teaching over the trascendal way of human being in getting perfection, knowing that human are perfect as weel as tother creature, perfect as the universe, nothing in the universe is wrong.

go ahead...

Carpe Diem et Memento Mori

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Any distinction is in constant flux: there is no constant which is "I". Anything we point to as the "I" necessarily changes constantly.

MJA: According to you, the world/universe is united, so no, a world united would not be Heaven as the world is already united and this is certainly not Heaven. Perhaps you mean that when everyone recognizes the universal unity, and acts accordingly, then we would have Heaven. In other words, not only do people need to recognize universal unity as an intellectual concept, but people also need to understand and act according to the implications of the intellectual concept of universal unity.

Of course, I still object to your use of One to represent this unity as One implies Two; "to organize is to destroy". Though I am sympathetic towards the concept of monism, this is the same objection I have to monism, which appears to be your philosophy.

Well done DT, When All is equal All is One.
The flaw in humanity is the taught belief in the certainty of measure.
But measure has no certainty, and there inlies the flaw that divides us All.
Without this uncertainty of measure, that true unity as you agree, is already here. It is the manmade flaw of measure that divides the true oneness of our universe, into untrue differences of our own construct which is to our demise.
Do you see?
Uni means One.

=
MJA

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