Oh dear we are not proceeding very far..Is there consensus that we have the possibility of alien craft visitng us?only possible now, not for sure...

Did I say it was 100% impossible they aren't visiting us...stop putting words in my mouth xris! :brickwall: It's the required assumption of this conversation!

Ghost, if you had any idea how much unnecessary nonfunctional genetic trash is in our genome, including some sloppy mechanisms to shove the trash to the curb, it would become clear that no one would engineer us even if they could. They would have done a much better job.

Furthermore, as Theatetus mentioned, we have a great deal of genetic homology with animals that bear a close phylogenic relationship to us. But even if you look at NON relatives among the species on earth, there are some genes we share even with plants, fungi, protozoa, and bacteria. Not just some genes, but many genes. And the proportion of the genetic homology is directly related to our evolutionary distance from them. In other words, the only argument that has any logical soundness requires that said aliens gave earth the primordial soup, but then left evolution alone thereafter.

Sorry, I was actually saying that the Government uses these false injections of bizarre sounding things, so the true stories lose credibility and people just throw the whole idea of Alien existence out. I actually meant, that is the only reason they would admit to Alien existence in the first place, so they can mix it with really crazy things, in an attempt to make us disregard the whole thing, and essentially, any truth they are trying to hide.

Absolutely unlikely. You're suggesting that they want people not to believe, by having "reputable" characters fabricate stories...Ghost, that is right next to impossible. When the government tries to cover things up, like eugenics (genocide, globalization, etc.), typically they offer alternative "altruistic" explanations for their activities. Still, you agree that the would-be existence of aliens is being willfully covered up.

Well, I would have to come to the conclusion that they are just letting the experiment flow naturally, but I would think it's almost impossible to remain completely invisible, so we do notice them. They probably don't put much effort into remaining hidden, as they might find it an extra benefit to study our thoughts, perspectives, beliefs, and arguments etc on their existence. How long will it take us to discover they really exist, what will we do and think to get to the bottom of it, how will it effect our society etc.

Then you would have to admit that they are toying with us, at the very least, no matter how you slice it. You are venturing onto shady foundations there, Ghost. We would be like lab rats to them, regardless. How does that sit with you? I mean, think about it. If ultimately what they wanted was to see how we respond to them, couldn't/wouldn't they just cut to the chase and show themselves?

How do you explain the fact the the government is covering it up then? Surely, you're not suggesting that the aliens are trying to conduct a blind experiment over thousands of years, and by sheer coincidence, governments are trying to cover-up something they don't believe exists...surely you would not be suggesting that, Ghost. The government(s) are simply covering it up. What conclusions can be drawn by that fact? Seriously, Ghost. It's time for you to step up to the plate.

And, how could these aliens comfortably assume that our goverments are not secretly planning to utterly destroy them with the first real chance they get?

I'm pretty sure that if they can harness free, zero-point energy for all their energy needs, and engineer an intelligent being with enough effort, they can probably turn zero-point energy into any element they please, things like money, gold, diamond, oil etc would probably be materialist ideals to them, and of no value, they only seek philosophical, metaphysical, and spiritual understanding.

Absolutely unlikely. You're suggesting that they want people not to believe, by having "reputable" characters fabricate stories...Ghost, that is right next to impossible. When the government tries to cover things up, like eugenics (genocide, globalization, etc.), typically they offer alternative "altruistic" explanations for their activities. Still, you agree that the would-be existence of aliens is being willfully covered up.

Exxon, the world's largest publicly traded oil company, said fourth-quarter net income rose 14% to $11.66 billion, or $2.13 per share. The company earned $10.25 billion, or $1.76 per share, in the year-ago period.

The profit topped Exxon's previous quarterly record of $10.7 billion, set in the fourth quarter of 2005, which also was an all-time high for a U.S. corporation.

"Exxon can put out some amazing numbers and this is one of those cases," said Jason Gammel, senior analyst at Macquarie Securities in New York.

Exxon also set an annual profit record by earning $40.61 billion last year - or nearly $1,300 per second in 2007. That exceeded its previous record of $39.5 billion in 2006.

In the fourth quarter, the company said revenue rose 29.5% from a year ago to $116.64 billion.

Then you would have to admit that they are toying with us, at the very least, no matter how you slice it. You are venturing onto shady foundations there, Ghost. We would be like lab rats to them, regardless. How does that sit with you? I mean, think about it. If ultimately what they wanted was to see how we respond to them, couldn't/wouldn't they just cut to the chase and show themselves?

How do you explain the fact the the government is covering it up then? Surely, you're not suggesting that the aliens are trying to conduct a blind experiment over thousands of years, and by sheer coincidence, governments are trying to cover-up something they don't believe exists...surely you would not be suggesting that, Ghost. The government(s) are simply covering it up. What conclusions can be drawn by that fact? Seriously, Ghost. It's time for you to step up to the plate.

And, how could these aliens comfortably assume that our goverments are not secretly planning to utterly destroy them with the first real chance they get?

How is it the required assumption of the conversation if it's not assumed 100% possible?!

:brickwall::brickwall::brickwall::brickwall:

It seems that a big obstacle on what to believe and what is true is based on who your getting it from and why if any of it is true, then why dont we have irrefutable evidence of it on all levels. You should address this throughly, as it seems to be the hindering point. I will throw out there, that Within the government, a common theme to operating the system is a method called compartmentalization. It is not a conspiracy theory but actual methodology. I think this topic will help the scatteredness of the topic. Hope this is useful.

peace

Thanks, Joe.

Yeah, compartmentalization is a good way to get things swept under the carpet. Most people aren't even aware that the US Air Force appears to have been created specifically to deal with the alien issue. Part of the challenge is that many people don't have a place in their head for the magnitude of the situation. To them, it just can't be.

I think ghost and I represent the two main positions on the issue. One side thinks these creatures ought to be revered. And the other side recognizes them for what they are.

It has been fun to exchange views here. I think ghost is starting to realize that I am dismantling his point-of-view one brick at a time.

Ghost, whenever you're ready...the good guys will gladly take you in.

Most people aren't even aware that the US Air Force appears to have been created specifically to deal with the alien issue.

The Aliens are more interested in other things, they aren't to worried if we know they exist or not, although that doesn't mean they don't care about this, and your right, they will just cut to the chase when the cleansing process begins, as I said, they will fill these people in on a few things, and let the experiment continue, in a better fashion, they can only get so much out of out of lies arrogance and stupidity, this gets old, and they are more interested in the positive growth of our species, after all, their ultimate goal is to intermingle with us, feel safe about us traveling throughout the universe and be capable of handling advanced technologies without corrupt thoughts of greed and power entering our minds.

I don't know, ghost. Assuming that oil companies have the entire world under their thumbs, why would they go thru the risk of being exposed by the aliens. Would they not fear "rehabilitation" by a force which appeared to be much more powerful?

To me it makes more sense that the aliens themselves are mandating the secrecy. Help me out, please [anyone]...why would the aliens risk resistance by our government, should it decide that the imposed secrecy just isn't right? I'd honestly like to get an explanation on that.

So, you're okay with being an experiment? What if you were not chosen to be exempt from the cleansing process? You would just humbly accept that? Do you think everyone else should also?

I think your perpective on their purpose here is a bit scant. If all they wanted was to adore us with their little social experiment, what's to keep some other alien intelligence from arriving here and determining that this is a tremendous waste of a planet's potential. Wouldn't the new visitors be justified in taking over? Have you ever considered that our creators are simply using us as a shield?

During the discussion of UFOs, the question, ultimately, is going to come up, can any government keep secrets, let alone the U.S. Government? And the answer to that is unequivocally yes. But one of the greatest weapons the intelligence community has at their disposal is a predisposition by the American people, the American politicians and the debunkers - people who wish to try to debunk UFO information. They immediately come out and say, oh, we can't keep secrets, we can't keep secrets. Well, the truth is, yes, we can.

The National Reconnaissance Office remained secret for many, many years. The mere existence of the NSA remained secret. The development of the atomic weapon remained secret until once you exploded one you eventually had to tell some people what was going on.

And we are conditioned by our own paradigms not to accept the possibility or probability of a highly advanced intelligent civilization coming here to visit us. You have evidence in the form of highly credible reports of objects being seen, of the entities inside these objects being seen. Yet, we look for a prosaic explanation and we throw out the bits and pieces of the evidence that doesn't meet our paradigm. So it is a self-keeping secret. You can conceal it in plain sight. It is political suicide to go and start hitting up intelligence agencies to get this information released. So, most of your members of Congress, and I know I've worked with a lot of them along that line, will balk and try not to do it. I can name you three members of Congress that were point blank asked to have a congressional inquiry on what happened here at Roswell?

We have got to get the documentation as it exists in the Government files. We have got to get it released before it ultimately is destroyed. A good example is the Blue Fly and Moon Dust files. I had classified documents the Air Force acknowledged. When I got members of Congress to help me open up more files, they were immediately destroyed and I can prove this.

Somewhere along the line, they may see that material and realize there is some very highly sensitive information that would have a damning effect upon the national security of United States should it become compromised. It needs to be further protected, to insure that there is only a limited access to that information to a small number of people. So small you can put them on a list of paper, on a piece of paper, and list them by name. Thus, you have the special access programs. The controls that were supposed to be put on the special access programs are not there. When Congress did their review of the way we protect documents, and the way we go ahead and implement our secrecy programs, they found that you had special access programs within special access programs - that is was essentially impossible to keep control of them all by Congress. And, I'm telling you right now; it is essentially impossible to keep control of them all.

The black budget world is like trying to describe Casper the friendly ghost. You might see a cartoon of him but you don't know how big he is, you don't know where his funding comes from, you don't know how many there are because of the compartmentalization and the oath that people have to take. I know people today that worked on one of the things that I worked on, and if you asked them about it - even if it is being discussed on the Internet - they would say no, I have no idea what you're talking about. They're in their seventies now, but they still absolutely would never admit that they even know what you're talking about. You have no idea, but it's probably larger than you think.

But it has been the subject of disinformation in order to deflect attention and to create confusion so the truth doesn't come out. Disinformation is simply another method of stonewalling. And that's been used consistently for the last 50 years or so: Weather balloons over Roswell as opposed to a crashed craft of some sort. That is disinformation. We've seen that for 50 years. And it's the best way to hide something?

Whatever activity is going on, to the extent that it is a clandestine group, a quasi-Government group, a quasi-private group, it is without any type, as far as I can tell, of high level Government oversight. And that is a great concern.

I am curious to know how many here are familiar with the Billy Meier case from Switzerland?

I am also curious how many here are aware of the Hollow Earth Theory?

In my studies I have discovered that all of the ancient religions of earth all relate to their ancestral roots being somehow involved with extraterrestrial beings that they worshipped as gods. Many of these ancient religions have legends that are far too similar to be coincidence.

In fact, if we agree that today's civilized world stemmed from the various religions of our ancient cultures, it could then be said to have its roots in extraterrestrial interaction. We all come from some religious background that has legends of interaction with aliens they worshipped as gods.

At some point in our ancestry we had relatives who woshipped alien beings. This is fact removed from the precious sands of time around the world.

Whether or not these ETs are still around is not provable, but if they may have been here before, they could certainly be here now. All the evidence suggests that they have been here before.