Only in the imaginary fairy-land of super-duper science.

No offense, man. But genetic engineering, even if it a solution to the problem, is hardly the only solution.

Even as a great proponent of bioengineering, I agree wholeheartedly with Didymos Thomas. I also doubt that any progressive genetic engineering can remove egocentricity.

WRONG! You may be a slave to your DNA but I know my DNA doesn't change and cannot produce a darn thing. If our perception allows the dna to produce the RNA, then we're a slave to RNA, not dna... and we're not a slave to either. We're a slave to our own thinking and perceptions and nothing else. DNA and genetics are controlled by the thoughts of mankind, not the other way around.

What comes first, the thought or the manifestation? What comes first the energy or the physical counterpart? - No need to answer, just ponder.

As for genetic enginnering: Its not the only solution to the problem but its the only FINAL solution, that is, the only solution wich will kill the matter for good.

let's get something straight, because I'm really sick of you and a few others assuming that I'm saying that the technology is here and now

I'm saying "let's get to work unraveling the genome and increasing our ability to consciously design our own experience"

it will take global collaboration and lots of time and money, but what other prospects do you have?

social reform? sorry
uploading? you still die
religion? never has worked
education? helps a little, but we relearn history over and over again

seriously, what is this alternative you guys see for eliminating involuntary suffering and death - not to mention inherent human stupidity?

rationalization? is it working?

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promote the research and the values, challenge the ideological barriers

or else all you have is the same old game of trying to hypnotize yourself into believing that it can't get any better

so you're saying that we can't abolish suffering because we'll never be able to abolish egocentricity?

prove it, if you can

I refuse to assume that it's impossible, not that I believe it's necessary to remove self-direction

I agree that control is a much better option in such cases than genetic manipulation. However, I also still support manipulation in directions that cannot be easily controlled simply by force of will or mind.

I just find the idea that genetic manipulation as being the only force that can ultimately better our world to be as ludicris as the idea that God, acupuncture, Coca Cola or any other myriad of things is the only force that can ultimately better our world. Genetic manipulation simply isn't "big enough" to encompass the universe.

Genetic manipulation is not the answer in my opinion. Frankly, mutating our children is not something I would be willing to do to my child. I would rather raise my child with a sense of honor, humility and self awareness.

Of course, if you think that genetic manipulation is a good replacement for raising children then why not sterilize the world and just create children how we want them?

This is the problem with manipulating the foundation for life... where does it stop?

What you are talking about we have always done... We have always killed each oher and we suffer from britle genes as a result...More than that, we have always managed our behavioor on the basis of our ideas of good which to be honest, has seldom resulted in good... We are more governed by our ideologies than self governed, and when we are, we cannot judge the idea, but always fault the people in relation to their failed ideas... There is a reason for the way we are... We have spent the bulk of our time as humans evolving to our situations and no one can say about our anger or violence that it may not be needed for our survival down the line... It is crazy to think we know more than our genes....It is crazy to think we know better than our genes... We have a lot of ideas... Perhaps, not a fraction of them will be good ideas...In any event, the forms/ideas people develop out of need for utility will last the longest, and serve the best...Human nature cannot be changed, and we must do as we have always done, and accomidate our nature with our forms... Still human nature is still as much our nature as the environment...We cannot always expect human nature will be any more pliable to our desires than nature as a whole....

Since every modificafication of human behavior based upon some ideal of human behavior and Good has been a disaster for humanity; what make you think genetic self modification which is always going to grow out of the ideals of the rich and elite will be any better??? We have evolved to our natural conditions, and will continue to evolve, but who really believes we should be made to evolve to conditions we do not have???

With genetic manipulation we can make ourselves immortal or insert that spiritual growth in our children so that they evolve even further than we did, pushing the species forward in this manner.

Natural evolution takes eons to work and human behavior has cripled it: For example: What pushes an specie away from diseases is the fact that the sick individuals die early and leave little or none descendents. Since humans cure their sick instead, we never evolve to be resistent to most diseases. Natural evolution is not intelligent, it choses a randow point between the best possible solution that works and the worst.

Fido and Icon, no offense but I feel a lot of fear of the unknow in your posts.

I think genetic manipulation is necessary because ever time a new generation takes over they are kinda starting over: We accumulate knowledge of the world and of the past through generations, but not spiritual growth (Other things too but am generalizing). With genetic manipulation we can make ourselves immortal or insert that spiritual growth in our children so that they evolve even further than we did, pushing the species forward in this manner. There is a biologic limit to our growth that has to be superated through self-modification.

The answer is never Icon: Our minds and our forms through the universe never stop changing, why not our bodies? Why you are afraid of changing ourself?

Natural evolution takes eons to work and human behavior has cripled it: For example: What pushes an specie away from diseases is the fact that the sick individuals die early and leave little or none descendents. Since humans cure their sick instead, we never evolve to be resistent to most diseases. Natural evolution is not intelligent, it choses a randow point between the best possible solution that works and the worst.

Fido and Icon, no offense but I feel a lot of fear of the unknow in your posts.

I think genetic manipulation is necessary because ever time a new generation takes over they are kinda starting over: We accumulate knowledge of the world and of the past through generations, but not spiritual growth (Other things too but am generalizing). With genetic manipulation we can make ourselves immortal or insert that spiritual growth in our children so that they evolve even further than we did, pushing the species forward in this manner. There is a biologic limit to our growth that has to be superated through self-modification.

The answer is never Icon: Our minds and our forms through the universe never stop changing, why not our bodies? Why you are afraid of changing ourself?

I doubt that any progressive genetic engineering can remove egocentricity.

When we practice genocide as wars often are, we are killing evolution

It may be possible -- and those who have the least egocentricity will be quickly selected out of the population.

That is not killing evolution. We are still natural phenomena, whatever we do. There is only ONE thing we can do to stop evolution, and that is to go 100% extinct. A genocide is a moral benchmark for evil, but stripped of morality, it IS evolution. That doesn't mean it's good, but neither is the fact that fish swim and birds fly. It is what it is.

Insofar as one generation leads to the next, we always evolve. Gene frequencies may change because of drift or selection or they may change because of the asymmetrical victimization and population movements during war. But that doesn't alter the fact that evolution, which is the alteration in gene frequency over time, still goes on.

No we can't. We don't even understand how human genes work to the point where we could be certain what exactly we might be changing when we manipulate a gene. Our genes interact with our environment, and you can't simply manipulate some genetic information without considering the environment, and without regulating human behavior and somehow eliminating natural genetic mutations and changes in the gene pool.

I would not call it fear per se. It is more a laughable recall of past events.

Nazi tried to create super soldiers... ended up creating the drug X-tacy instead. Sold it to the Canadians after the war.

humans have technology beyond our maturity. Look at the atom bomb. We had the key to clean, safe, efficient power... We used it to kill each other in the most horrid way possible.

Computers... we have the ability to calculate information at speeds the human mind could never match.... Porn is the biggest industry on the net.

Each time that we do something with science, it is applied in a rather stupid manner.

Example. We are running out of resources as it is. So we make ourselves immortal.... Now we are producing more children but no one is dying... Resource consumption multiplies 100 fold annually.

GREAT!!!!! (sarcasm)

here is another one. We rermove the ego. Now there is no reason for man to want to DO anything. All of a sudden we accomplish jack squat and we die out as a race because we do not have the desire to better ourselves any more. Without egocentricity, desire is gone bud.

Everything in nature is there for a reason and we are not gods.

You say that I am afraid, none of this would happen in my lifetime anyway so I have nothing to fear. I just think that it is a really stupid idea because mankind is notorious for considering only the immediate application and not what will happen 100-1000 years down the line. We seem only capable of seeing to the extent of our lifetime.

And if we cant trust ourselves to make good changes in the future generations, then what hope can we have of creating system of ideas that will not only have a positive effect in humanity, but also be mantained by future generations?

You cant evolve winhout taking risks.

We are like Dr. Frankenstein trying to solve the mysteries of life, and before we know what we have, we've created a monster

There is no proof that this will happen, and as I've not noticed any worldwide renown of your ability to see the future, I'll assume you have none. Even the liklihood of this happening has no bearing. It is entirely dependent upon those doing the manipulation and the caution they exhibit. The human race isn't manipulating genes, individuals working in the field are. Until you prove that those researchers are madmen creating monsters for the heck of it, your statement is invalid.