Infinite

@xris,

I do not believe in anything, how could I without it being blind faith as you have said.

I assume from the fact that I have a planet beneath my feet, and a universe above my head, and a head and feet for them to find their place, that something put it all there, just like I assume that someone put the Taj Mahal there, and that something is resposnible for the house that you live in Xris.

Why is that blind faith?

And why does the fact that you are not interested in where anything comes from mean that nobody else should wonder about the origin of these things without seeming silly to you? Many people will go to the car lot and look at the outside of the cars, a few will want to see what makes them go and really get in there. Do you call those few silly for digging a little deeper? You would never make a very good archaeologist Xris, lol.

I am not jumping to any conclusions about your personal philosophy, this is a general observation because many feel as you do, but it always seems to me that those who try their best to ignore where everything around them comes from are burying their heads in the sand for a reason.

What is yours? Why does it not matter to you that there MIGHT be a force in the universe repsonsible for everything that exists? And why are you more comfortable using the answer, "well it just is", as opposed to saying " well there must be something responsible".

Of the responses IMO the first is alot sillier sounding than the second, dont you think?

It just is!

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder wrote:

I do not believe in anything, how could I without it being blind faith as you have said.

I assume from the fact that I have a planet beneath my feet, and a universe above my head, and a head and feet for them to find their place, that something put it all there, just like I assume that someone put the Taj Mahal there, and that something is resposnible for the house that you live in Xris.

Why is that blind faith?

And why does the fact that you are not interested in where anything comes from mean that nobody else should wonder about the origin of these things without seeming silly to you? Many people will go to the car lot and look at the outside of the cars, a few will want to see what makes them go and really get in there. Do you call those few silly for digging a little deeper? You would never make a very good archaeologist Xris, lol.

I am not jumping to any conclusions about your personal philosophy, this is a general observation because many feel as you do, but it always seems to me that those who try their best to ignore where everything around them comes from are burying their heads in the sand for a reason.

What is yours? Why does it not matter to you that there MIGHT be a force in the universe repsonsible for everything that exists? And why are you more comfortable using the answer, "well it just is", as opposed to saying " well there must be something responsible".

Of the responses IMO the first is alot sillier sounding than the second, dont you think?

It just is!

i wonder if you ctually read my post? i said if you cant answer a question ..does that not mean something to you ?? To answer a question you must have at first asked the question..Its the easiest thing in the universe to pose the big question everyone does it..If asking the question is your end product lucky you.

@Zacrates,

Of course I read your post Xris. You hear the wind but you do not wonder where it comes from. Right?

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder wrote:

Of course I read your post Xris. You hear the wind but you do not wonder where it comes from. Right?

Poetic winds are just the same as smelly winds no one admits to where they come from.Of course i wonder i wonder all the bleeding time but it does not make me suppose or decide the eventual origin..How much farther have you got than me? explain please because i am completely lost as to where you have got on this journey of discovery...

@xris,

I havent gotten any further thyan you if you are still seeking it, because I also am still seeking.

The question is not what are we seeking, but why?

I know why I seek but you seem to be a little confused, or at least you have confused me. Maybe I am just not understanding your replies but I am not sure if you are curious or not.

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder wrote:

I havent gotten any further thyan you if you are still seeking it, because I also am still seeking.

The question is not what are we seeking, but why?

I know why I seek but you seem to be a little confused, or at least you have confused me. Maybe I am just not understanding your replies but I am not sure if you are curious or not.

Are you being obtuse on purpose did you not read my post ? and what do you think we have been discussing a holiday destination:perplexed:just read my posts please..

@Zacrates,

Xris,

I am not trying to be evasive. If I am misquoting you or something than help me out.

You are giving me the impression that you think that if something is a mystery and cannot be shown to have physical substance for obervation and testing than it does not warrant investigation.

Is that correct or not?

That is why you used the wind as a symbol. You know its there, and yet you are not interested in discovering anything about it becasue it is intangible. And yet there are many weather experts out there who are extremely curious about it, just as there are many out there curious about the origin of life.

Intangibility should not be the void of interest, it should be the catalyst.

@Pathfinder,

Pathfinder wrote:

Xris,

I am not trying to be evasive. If I am misquoting you or something than help me out.

You are giving me the impression that you think that if something is a mystery and cannot be shown to have physical substance for obervation and testing than it does not warrant investigation.

Is that correct or not?

That is why you used the wind as a symbol. You know its there, and yet you are not interested in discovering anything about it becasue it is intangible. And yet there are many weather experts out there who are extremely curious about it, just as there are many out there curious about the origin of life.

Intangibility should not be the void of interest, it should be the catalyst.

Have i said it does not warrant investigation? if i have i would be grateful for you to point it out.I can understand the thinking that it appears to be created, these wonders. Ive told you i have pondered on this subject and i could add to your list if i desired. BUT if you tell me you have found the answers i will ask you questions because ide love for your findings to be true.We see the foot prints but never the animal.

@Zacrates,

This thread is about infinity I presume, Infinite is the ultimate contradiction the greatest oxymoron, It MUST BE TRUE/BUT IT CAN NOT BE TRUE

Existence/god must be evolving but how can an infinite being/concept/idea/formula which has no end evolve.

Walk with me down the road called infinite, walk for eternity and there is no end to the road/ but hey/heck the road must end/but is did not/but it/must/so I erect a great wall/the wall is infinitely thick/but it cant be/but it must be?????????????????????????????????????.

Oh!! man!! let me go and hide

@Alan McDougall,

It is as close as your next breath and as far as your imagination will take you.

@Zacrates,

xris

The wall should have read "infinitely thick" not infinitely thing

@Zacrates,

There's more than one kind of 'infinity'; you have to clarify what you mean.

For example, there's countable and uncountable infinity, the latter of which, in a sense is 'larger'.

@Alan McDougall,

i havent been on this forum in a while... but wow this thread got alot of posts

@Zacrates,

hey

"Infinity is an impossible truth"

@Khethil,

Okay, I'm not sure if anybody has done this yet, but as far as reality goes infinity is mathematically impossible. Working within certain restrictions, mathematicians can work with infinite values in the conceptual realm, but to assert that in reality time is infinite is a gross admission of ignorance.

Allow me to explain.

Let's say I have an infinite amount of marbles in my possession, and I wanted to give you some. One way I could do it is by giving you all of the marbles, in which case I would be left with zero marbles.

However, another way to do it would be to give you all of the odd numbered marbles. Then I would still have an infinity left over for myself, and you would have infinity too. You'd have just as many as would, and in fact, each of us would have just as many as I originally had before we divided into odd and even!

Yet another approach would be to give you all the marbles numbered four and higher. That way, you would have an infinity of marbles, but I would have only three marbles left.

Now look at what these illustrations demonstrate: the notion of an actual infinite number of things leads to contradictory results. Allow me to juxtapose these case-by-case.

Case 1: Infinity - Infinity = 0
Case 2: Infinity - Infinity = Infinity
Case 3: Infinity - Infinity = 3

In each of these cases, we've subtracted the identical number from the identical number, but we have come up with non-identical results. Given certain conditions, you can deal with infinite quantities of infinite numbers in the conceptual realm. However, in transfinite arithmetic, it leads to the contradictions highlighted in the earlier examples. All you have to do when thinking about infinity regarding time is substitute "past events" for "marbles," and it quickly becomes apparent how ridiculous the concept of infinite time is.

Khethil;24615 wrote:

Haha, nice thread. Lemme chime in if I dare...

Time is a concept we invented; we measure it by *other things*, but Time is a term only, invented by humans, to describe the frequency of events or intervals (regularity). Its just a word...

Here's what I say to that assertion, hoping you can convince me that time truly is a "concept" we invented. Here's how I've always seen the issue. The method of chronology we've developed to measure the passing of time is invented. But we are constantly witnessing various moments move from future to past, which indicates the passage of time. The fact that the universe is dynamic necessitates the existence time. If time didn't exist, then objects in space would remain fixed, and existence would be completely static, as objects must move within space AND time to be dynamic. The same thing is true of space. the reason we created numbers for various forms of math like arithmetic, geometry, and calculus are because we wanted to work within space, and therefore needed a system of measuring it to do just that. That doesn't mean time and space itself are inventions of man. The systems we use to measure them are what are invented.

@Aphoric,

I do not agree infinity is a mathematical concept used all the time by mathematicians, even if they don't like it

But to get around it they make use of imaginary numbers and in our imagination anything is possible

Like I previously stated, unnoticed, Infinity is an impossible truth or an impossible fact. (to us)

It just cannot be , yet it must be, the ultimate enigma a concept that does not fit easily in our limited finite minds.

How could a finite entity like us comprehend infinity. But hey out there it just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on forever and forever

@Zacrates,

^ can a finite entity even comprehend finite amounts? Can you truly comprehend six billion people, or ten trillion dollars? Can you comprehend 10^10^123? Infinity in my opinion is too far a reach for such a limited awareness.

@Aphoric,

Aphoric wrote:

^ can a finite entity even comprehend finite amounts? Can you truly comprehend six billion people, or ten trillion dollars? Can you comprehend 10^10^123? Infinity in my opinion is too far a reach for such a limited awareness.

That is what I said in an earlier post in this thread, but just because we cannot comprehend this infinite entity does not mean it does not exist or cannot exist

My belief is that there must be an "Ucaused Cause" behind the universe and the whole or the totality of all existence

Thus this primordial Uncaused cause Caused us to come into being

@Zacrates,

^ indeed. And who says that this uncaused cause is limited to operating in time and space? any omnipotent uncaused causer is much larger than such finite concepts. I'm simply rationalizing within the finite space and time that is our universe. In our universe, infinity is impossible, but that's because we are limited to operating within space and time. I think this is where a lot of people get hung up on the idea of time being finite but the uncaused causer being infinite.

@Zacrates,

Number crunchers have been suggesting that math is the solution to everything for countless years.

reality is a different story I am afraid to say.

Math is merely a matter of attempting to find the equivalent between two factors. Something must equal something in the summation or there is failure to achieve.

If one cannot make one side of an equation be equal to the other side than there is no equation.

One cannot simply devise 2 plus 2 equals five.

And one cannot devise that infinity equals anything either. Mathematics is not a feasible means of understanding the universe.

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