Infinite

Get Email Updates Email this Topic Print this Page

Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 04:53 pm
What is infinity exactly? Does a line really go on forever?
If it does how are we really sure?
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 04:58 pm
@Zacrates,
Only time and space can be infininte in an existence.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 05:23 pm
@astrotheological,
I consider infinity to to be a syntaxual property applied apriori to an event, object or series of either. It prompts an induction over the object of consideration such that it is repeated indefintely but has no definite physical manifestation. That time and space are considered to be infinte is an example of this induction process, though not physical space, only mathematical space or mental space. Certainly no one has experienced an infinte length of time, but as time is artificial it is indefinitely subdividable, thus infintely dense but this is a syntaxual aspect of its nature, it is not physically manifest. This behavour is unlike that of physical space which is not necessarily infinite and considered to be disolvable in discrete units defined by plank length. This is not definitely the case, however it indicates a strong possibility.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 05:45 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Is infinity the same as nothingness? Is infinitely dense the same as indivisible? :deep-thought:

:OK:
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 05:48 pm
@Holiday20310401,
You see Zetetic time and space is just there. There can never be none of it or a certain amount of it in all of existence.
 
Zacrates
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:24 pm
@Zacrates,
Time and space can't be really infinite because the human race has defined it infinite, and when the human race ends for all we know time and space could end.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:27 pm
@Zacrates,
Zacrates wrote:
Time and space can't be really infinite because the human race has defined it infinite, and when the human race ends for all we know time and space could end.


Just because the human race is over doesn't mean that time and space is over. Just because you die doesn't mean that space and time is over. When you die though there still is existence but you are just not apart of it anymore.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:30 pm
@astrotheological,
Time and space can never have an end.
 
Zacrates
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:32 pm
@astrotheological,
But how can we prove that? If we are all gone and there is no one there to witness that it wont end, then how can we?
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:41 pm
@Zacrates,
Well for example if a tree fell a thousand mile away and nobody was there to witness it then could you hear the tree fall? Ofcourse not but that doesn't mean that there was no sound created from the fall. We just can't hear it. We do have instruments that can tell us whether or not sound was created when nobody was there.

And ofcourse sound was created anyways.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:43 pm
@astrotheological,
Thats not the same situation though astro.

If all of humanity, all consciousness was deprived from the universe, would there be a universe?
 
Zacrates
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:44 pm
@astrotheological,
But that doesn't prove that, time and space will never end.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:47 pm
@Zacrates,
Time and space can never end. We just cannot perceive time and space because we are dead. There is no such thing as time and space when we are dead because we no longer exist. In order to perceive time and space we have to exist.
 
paulhanke
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:47 pm
@Zacrates,
Zacrates wrote:
But how can we prove that? If we are all gone and there is no one there to witness that it wont end, then how can we?


... did time and space exist before the human race? - are they two building blocks without which there could not have been a human race? ... and if so on both counts, why would they disappear when the human race disappears? - wouldn't they just continue on, forming the basis for the next evolution of intelligence in the universe? ...
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:50 pm
@astrotheological,
astrotheological wrote:
Time and space can never have an end.

Listen. You haven't even said anything that has had anything to do with what my post said. The ideas that time and space are infinite in the way you describe them is elementary, I was discussing the infinitesimal nature of physical space. Physical space being totally distinct from mental or mathematical space. I noted that time and mental space are simply examples, and that the general form is syntaxual. Infinity is a rule set based in a repeatitive induction. Time is endless as long as there are events by which it can be measured, and objects to create the events. Even the very action of keeping time is a physical even, however, so this is necssarily true. That you can imagine space to be infinite and in fact anything to be infinite without having experienced any physical representation of infinity indicates that its nature is syntaxual, that it is a rule set, that it is linguistic in nature rather than physically manifest. You can conceive of infinity because your mind can translate the syntax into a spacial approximation of what ever induction you are carrying on indefinitely. You can concieve of a series of approximations of mathematcial density, that is, absolute density, infinite density, because of this induction process, but you cannot understand infinity apart from its syntax. Infinity is linguistic, syntaxual it is a prompt that what ever induction is being carried out is done so without end. This is what I am trying to explain in the above post.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:50 pm
@paulhanke,
paulhanke wrote:
... did time and space exist before the human race? - are they two building blocks without which there could not have been a human race? ... and if so on both counts, why would they disappear when the human race disappears? - wouldn't they just continue on, forming the basis for the next evolution of intelligence in the universe? ...


Well in order for us to be created we would have needed time and space in the first place, right?

Also think about it if someone dies is time and space still there. Well ofcourse its just that the dead person cannot perceive it because they do not exist. You need to exist in order to percieve time and space.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:54 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
Thats not the same situation though astro.

If all of humanity, all consciousness was deprived from the universe, would there be a universe?


Ok holiday if you drank a can of pop and the bottle was left on the table.
- But then all of a sudden the human race became extict for some unknown reason including yourself ofcourse, the pop can would srill be there wouldn't it. Just like the universe would still be there.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:59 pm
@astrotheological,
What does it matter people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:13 pm
@astrotheological,
Man, you know you can edit your posts right? You're definitely in violation of the no spamming rule here. Also, if you aren't interested in this discussion, why are you participating? This is essentially a thread on philosophy of mathematics, it doesn't get much more esoteric. I really enjoy considering this manner of problem, it do not see it as some boring intellectual exercise but rather a fun game. I don't know what to tell you.

I would say that the subject of discussion is of some import to a mathematician or theoretical computer scientist or maybe a linguist or logician.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:16 pm
@astrotheological,
astrotheological wrote:
Ok holiday if you drank a can of pop and the bottle was left on the table.
- But then all of a sudden the human race became extict for some unknown reason including yourself ofcourse, the pop can would srill be there wouldn't it. Just like the universe would still be there.


Yes of course the pop can would still be there, there for all the other conscious beings you are forgetting about on Earth, and in the universe.

You know, perhaps there is this universal rule that has an inertial sense to it, providing as a force for our instinct for survival. The universe requires at all times a conscious entity. Maybe our survival instinct will be weakened if we discover an alien life. Seems crazy though.

Instincts are governed by environment, not purely within the mind, just as the environment relies on intrinsics. Again though, ...:eek:

astrotheological wrote:
What does it matter people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hypocritical statement.:a-ok::rolleyes::a-ok::rolleyes:, :nonooo: -->Laughing

Does anything that can be conceived automatically implicate a practical potential? I think so. This is great stuff.
 
 

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 03/03/2024 at 02:18:46