9/11

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Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 01:06 pm
I believe that 9/11 was just a huge set up by the American government just to make an excuse for the people of the United States to go to war against Iraq and other countries in the middle east. They didn't actually find any weapons of mass destruction anyways. They just wanted the oil.

Besides how can a plane even take down a tower of that size anyways. Then the other tower just happens to fall as well. Also the pentagon was claimed to be hit by an airplane but there was no sign of a crash anywhere.

Also this isn't the only time the American government has done this to its own people. Back when pearl harbour happened the Austrailians had warned the U.S. that there were Japanese bombers heading towards hawaii. Of course though the U.S. government lets pearl harbour get bombed so that the citizens of the U.S. will want to go to war.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 03:26 pm
@astrotheological,
astrotheological wrote:
I believe that 9/11 was just a huge set up by the American government just to make an excuse for the people of the United States to go to war against Iraq and other countries in the middle east. They didn't actually find any weapons of mass destruction anyways. They just wanted the oil.


What a good job we have done getting that oil. Look at how much oil independence we have gained by this strategy. Are you aware that we have vast stores of oil n the American midwest in the for m of oil shale? Oil Shale Reserves - A Daily Reckoning White Paper Report The oil companies can orchastrate a war dispite their inability to drill in Anwar or even in international waters?! Thats right, they are barred by the U.S. government from drilling in international waters.

The weapons of mass destruction were the supposed justification, however, Saddam was still in hot water from the Gulf War and had, in actuality, violated U.S. terms for a peace treaty. The American planes in Iraq were shot at numerous times preceeding the attack while enforcing the anti fly zones in place to stop Saddam from testing chemical and biological warfare. In an earlier era the Iraqis would have been irradicated simply for this. Consider how Reagan might have delt with it, not to condone his methods neccessarily, just as an illustrative.
astrotheological wrote:

Besides how can a plane even take down a tower of that size anyways. Then the other tower just happens to fall as well. Also the pentagon was claimed to be hit by an airplane but there was no sign of a crash anywhere.


It might be related to the fact that critical information of the structural integrity of the tower was released during the first bombing in the 90's. The towers had a structural weakness which was pointed out by the engineers promptly after the first attack, stating that if they really wanted to take out the towers, they should have attacked here, here or here essentially. You have been looking at 9/11 truth for a little too long.
astrotheological wrote:

Also this isn't the only time the American government has done this to its own people. Back when pearl harbour happened the Austrailians had warned the U.S. that there were Japanese bombers heading towards hawaii. Of course though the U.S. government lets pearl harbour get bombed so that the citizens of the U.S. will want to go to war.


World war II was a far more worthy cause than the Iraq war, and I would say that that action was justified, a bit machivellian but drastic times call for drastic measures. That being said, I disagree that this attack was orchestrated and there are many cogent refutations of this sort of pattern finding. The method used in these theoires is in no way sicentific; innumerable theories can be drawn with the right set of evidence, so long as you disclude all other evidence.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 03:34 pm
@Zetetic11235,
It take less than 10 minutes for those jet fighter to have intercepted that plane instead they were blackmailed.
Also the way that the structure fell indicates that there would of had to be some sort of explosive device that would take down the towers.
For the record if the pentagon was hit by a plane as well which is what the bush administration said where was the damaged plane. According to the bush administration the plane disintigrated during the collision. Ofcourse that is scientifically impossible for a plane made of very thick steel to do so.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 03:51 pm
@astrotheological,
astrotheological wrote:
It take less than 10 minutes for those jet fighter to have intercepted that plane instead they were blackmailed.
Also the way that the structure fell indicates that there would of had to be some sort of explosive device that would take down the towers.
For the record if the pentagon was hit by a plane as well which is what the bush administration said where was the damaged plane. According to the bush administration the plane disintigrated during the collision. Ofcourse that is scientifically impossible for a plane made of very thick steel to do so.


Planes are not made of very thick steel, they are made of very thin aluminum. Disintegration is quite possible for very thin aluminum. Check it out. One of the planes was a Boeing 767, the United airlines flight 175. Is it not possible that the explosive fuel could cause somthing like that expolsion by the way?
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 04:08 pm
@Zetetic11235,
Yes but the engines are made up of 6 tonnes each of steel and titanium. Now that is scientifically impossible to have been vaporized by jet fuel. Besides there was no evidence that there could have been jet fuel near the pentagon.
 
sarathustrah
 
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 04:32 pm
@astrotheological,
ever see that episode of south park about the urinal thing

(i dont know what happened with 911 but i agree it doesnt add up... i mean we didnt go to war like this when they bombed the towers the first time in 1993 wasnt it, its our own fault for not knowin it was comin... but still... we didnt find out about these weapons until after the bombing? really? all of a sudden we care? i dunno... we have weapons of mass destruction but you dont see us gettin invaded and havin them takin away Razz but the terrorist demands are for us to stop interfering with them... well thats what we demanded when we broke independent from Britain... i could really rant about this stuff for forever Razz )

but that south park episode... proposes that the 911 conspiracy websites are run by our government cause they want us to think they are all knowing and all powerful, but couldnt really pull something like that off Razz so the 911 conspiracy is a government conspiracy!!!
its a funny episode, but thats not what i believe or nothin
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 10:39 pm
@sarathustrah,
Well the most conclusive evidence seems to be the titanium chem here. That certainly doesn't add up. Evidence and the situation with the security tapes certainly suggests it was a cruise missile that hit the pentagon. And why lie and say it was an airplane.

But Zetetic is right that there is no need to go to war for the oil. And I see the Federal Reserve being tied to the Bush Administration, not just Saudi Arabia's connections. Maybe the USA is just in the middle east to keep Russia out of there.
 
Didymos Thomas
 
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2008 11:07 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Quote:
And I see the Federal Reserve being tied to the Bush Administration, not just Saudi Arabia's connections.


The Fed has been around for a very long time, and predates not only the Bush administration, but Bush's birth. Predates his daddy's birth.

Quote:
Maybe the USA is just in the middle east to keep Russia out of there.


That's a huge part of it. And China, too. Wars are fought, generally, for economic reasons, fought for money.
 
Zetetic11235
 
Reply Sun 7 Sep, 2008 03:40 pm
@Didymos Thomas,
I believe they did indeed find wreckage at ground zero by the way, though it is bizzare that any partial bodies were at all preserved considering the intensity of the flames. There were several sets of parial remains of flight attendents including one specimen which still had the flight wings attached to their blue top.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Sun 7 Sep, 2008 06:07 pm
@Zetetic11235,
There is no way though that bodies could have survived. The only thing that would have survived then of course were the engines. Although there was no sign of any engines.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2008 01:14 pm
@astrotheological,
You can all go to this website to find out that the cia actually openly admitted that there was no such thing as Al Qaeda and that 9/11 was a hoax.

C.I.A. no al-qaeda ever existed - BBC documentary "the power of nightmares" | polidics.com:phone:
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2008 01:36 pm
@astrotheological,
Its nice link but it still doesn't prove that 911 was a set up by America even though there is no doubt in my mind that it was.

You'll have to compile a lot of facts to make Zetetic believe that.
 
astrotheological
 
Reply Mon 8 Sep, 2008 01:39 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401 wrote:
Its nice link but it still doesn't prove that 911 was a set up by America even though there is no doubt in my mind that it was.

You'll have to compile a lot of facts to make Zetetic believe that.


I don't think that you could have seen that documentary in 15 minutes because I posted this 15 minutes ago.:listening:
 
sarathustrah
 
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 01:35 am
@astrotheological,
im gonna have to watch that tomorrow... its close to bedtime for me right now...

but you guys see that clip where bush says something like the hardest part of my job is connecting alqaeda to iraq

and what about our whole reason for declaring the invasion on iraq? as ron paul says... im all about defending our country from terrorists... (though theres no MORAL justification for war) but still... we stopped pursuing the real terrorists and started trying to tell iraq the best way to run their country... and what about osama... as if gettin saddam was good enough...

and i know alot of people who just got sent on tours over to iraq... cause i play games with alot of army people over xbox live... yet on yahoo news it says bush is bringin home troops lol... i dunno its weird... are people just ending their tours and bein replaced or are people goin over there for a couple months and thats it... i dunno... im tired and rambling Razz
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 04:07 am
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401;23938 wrote:
Well the most conclusive evidence seems to be the titanium chem here.
And the fact that it was witnessed live by millions of people in New York City. My good friend who worked at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, MILES uptown from there, watched it from the roof of the hospital.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 02:21 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes, Are you in disbelief of the whole plot?!

And astro I saw that BBC news a while ago, before you posted it.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 08:35 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401;24247 wrote:
Aedes, Are you in disbelief of the whole plot?!
What whole plot, that the Bush administration or CIA somehow staged it?

They can't get together and tie their shoes. You honestly think that the Bush administration is competent enough organize and execute something like this, especially after being in office for only 7 months? Nonsense. Even disregarding the absurdity of such a conspiracy theory (given the number of violent acts from Muslim extremists directed at Americans going back to Lebanon and Iran), I don't have the slightest belief that the Bush administration would be capable of such a thing. There have been PLENTY of disgruntled, disaffected people within their administration to leave, point fingers, call names, blow whistles since then. Much as they've tried the Bush administration has not been able to keep secrets at all. All they can do is keep enough secret to keep themselves mostly out of courtrooms. I know so many people who live in New York City who watched the damned thing happen in front of their eyes. And my mother-in-law, who is president of the National Air Disaster Alliance, knows so much stuff about how this would missed by the Bush admin. that your head would spin if you heard it all.

These conspiracy theories deserve a hefty dose of Haldol. Just because the Bush administration has politically profited from 9/11 (including tactlessly) doesn't mean that they had anything to do with it happening (other than missing it from sheer blind buffoonery and incompetence).

I don't believe everything I read or hear, I'm a hater of the Bush administration, and I'm not a blind patriot. But I've lived most of my life outside of NYC, and I believe the personal accounts of friends and relatives in NYC who witnessed the events and others who have investigated these very events; certainly more than I believe conspiracy theories that are just meant to legitimize antiamericanism.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 08:39 pm
@Aedes,
Well I think the CIA is too.

Do you at least see a totalitarian threat?

Unless you feel otherwise.
 
Aedes
 
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 08:48 pm
@Holiday20310401,
Holiday20310401;24282 wrote:
Well I think the CIA is too.
The same CIA that has been openly infighting, bickering, and falling on its own sword since 9/11/01 for botching it? The same CIA whose recently "retired" director George Tenet has published a book pointing fingers and making enemies? The same CIA that was looking into WMDs in Iraq, that can't find the world's most wanted man, and that has led to a complete misunderstanding by the US of almost every adversarial country in the world since the end of the Cold War? Doubt it -- the CIA is no more competent than the Bush administration, and it's probably worse given that they have far less public accountability.

Quote:
Do you at least see a totalitarian threat?
That's a wild exaggeration of what's happened during every war in the USA for the last 200+ years. During the Civil War, WWI, WWII, and Korea, there was just as much and often more seizure of executive power than there has been now. And we haven't become a totalitarian state yet. If Bush is still in office next February, then I'll revise my statement.

I think policy-wise McCain is indeed not far from Bush, but at the same time he is definitely not "in" on it -- he and Bush despise each other, they have for the last 8 years, and even though he'll never get my vote I do believe that McCain is openly opposed to any "totalitarian" movement.
 
Holiday20310401
 
Reply Tue 9 Sep, 2008 09:19 pm
@Aedes,
This is one of the few topics me and my dad agree on.

Though I have to agree it sounds absurd, a little. Maybe Bush is there because he's an idiot. And McCain is purposely against Bush.

But wasn't it you who said a while ago that once we get over the fact that the candidates don't tell the truth 100% before elected then it is all about the party. He is still a republican. He is just trying to show some differences from Obama.

Who knows, perhaps the presidents are not even aware of any plots, they may not even be involved fully.

Have you ever went into deep thought about the structure of society, social interaction on different levels. Have you even compared yourself from a human being to that of a snail.

Snails do not build upon their gain on other snails. They do not think that way. Based on their behaviour, or contemplation, they probably are self centered on instinctual goals, without fluctuation of their race.

And yes the same CIA. And about the way the war is going... surely it would be prudent to listen to the Iraqis, the public, about getting out. It seems that democracy has been engulfed in corporations and therefore the people themselves. What glory is there when we are much the same. We create such corporations, and businesses, and now we support Obama to raise the amount of income tax they oughta pay. But when people become business owners it gets flipped around. Suddenly McCain is looking good. Such hollow truth. Yet hypocrisy lurks everywhere like some split personality driving the one being to neglect the benevolence in denying the pursuit of ego.
 
 

 
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