9/11

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salima
 
Reply Fri 17 Jul, 2009 07:19 pm
@astrotheological,
what is so hard to believe about a government killing 3000 of their own citizens? they do it all the time when they send them to war for political and monetary reasons, and give them toys to play with like agent orange, dont they? and why is this any less believable or acceptable than the idea of killing civilians and calling it 'collateral damage'? what about sending mercenaries to other countries and assassinating leaders in order to make it easier to dominate the playing field?

it happens all over the world-what happened in tianamen square, what is happening today in iran. they are more overt, that is all-some governments find more sophisticated and subtle ways to accomplish their goals.

and as far as the idea that enough convinced citizens couldnt be found to go along with this kind of plan, how do you explain bush getting elected for a second term? that to me is beyond belief, way above any conspiracy theory i have ever heard. ordinary people can be grouped in a herd and controlled by anyone who knows how to push the right buttons to scare them enough.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 03:44 am
@salima,
So you all agree that the Bush administration was capable of organising hundreds of secret service personel, with the possibility that a few of them had relatives working in the towers,in planting bombs prior to the planes hitting the towers and knowing precisely the location and time of the impacts?You also believe after all this time not one of those hundreds of agents by the guilt of his actions has compelled him to speak out?
I can imagine organising one lone gunman but the extent this intrigue had to extend to is beyond my comprehension.
 
salima
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 05:39 am
@astrotheological,
i am sure the big B himself wasnt smart enough to organize anything, but whoever is behind him and was pulling the strings could. i have no idea how it was done or who did it, but i think i havent heard any theories yet that arent possible.

when i think about all the things that the government has done in the past that i never knew was happening and no one would have believed was possible at the time-and how easy it was to hide. i remember being a teen-ager just out of high school and my father telling me one day rather offhandedly that the japanese lady who worked in their shop had been in a concentration camp in america during world war ii. i couldnt believe my ears- did i miss something in my history books? (she wasnt a spy by the way, nor anyone in her family-just a quiet person who never broke any laws.) there were concentration camps in america for american citizens of japanese descent? then later i heard the actor who played the part of charlie chan in the movies saying " i am chinese-they made me wear a badge that read 'i am chinese' so i wouldnt be mistaken for the enemy." an american citizen, a hollywood actor!

i still dont know the extent of the truth of what was done in world war ii. but there isnt much i wouldnt believe is possible...

i would like to think that it is getting harder to hide things all the time, in part because of the internet. i dont think secrets are going to be as easy to keep going forward. but people have to start looking really hard to find out what is exactly going on...
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 05:59 am
@salima,
salima;78096 wrote:
i am sure the big B himself wasnt smart enough to organize anything, but whoever is behind him and was pulling the strings could. i have no idea how it was done or who did it, but i think i havent heard any theories yet that arent possible.

when i think about all the things that the government has done in the past that i never knew was happening and no one would have believed was possible at the time-and how easy it was to hide. i remember being a teen-ager just out of high school and my father telling me one day rather offhandedly that the japanese lady who worked in their shop had been in a concentration camp in america during world war ii. i couldnt believe my ears- did i miss something in my history books? (she wasnt a spy by the way, nor anyone in her family-just a quiet person who never broke any laws.) there were concentration camps in america for american citizens of japanese descent? then later i heard the actor who played the part of charlie chan in the movies saying " i am chinese-they made me wear a badge that read 'i am chinese' so i wouldnt be mistaken for the enemy." an american citizen, a hollywood actor!

i still dont know the extent of the truth of what was done in world war ii. but there isnt much i wouldnt believe is possible...

i would like to think that it is getting harder to hide things all the time, in part because of the internet. i dont think secrets are going to be as easy to keep going forward. but people have to start looking really hard to find out what is exactly going on...
Every country has its awful episodes of treating its inhabitants as lesser mortals,look at Iran at the moment,but that does not give you any reason or any certainty in your views that Bush gave the order to allow 3000 of his citizens to be murderd.With that bizarre reasoning you could conclude almost anything and some do.We must deal in facts not supposition built on vague stories about past horrors.
 
salima
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 08:30 am
@xris,
[QUOTE=xris;78099]Every country has its awful episodes of treating its inhabitants as lesser mortals,look at Iran at the moment,but that does not give you any reason or any certainty in your views that Bush gave the order to allow 3000 of his citizens to be murderd.With that bizarre reasoning you could conclude almost anything and some do.We must deal in facts not supposition built on vague stories about past horrors.[/QUOTE]

no, xris-i never said i believe bush gave the order. and i dont have any conclusions. i only said based partly on past horrors i dont find it difficult to believe most conspiracy theories are possible. and did you see that i mentioned iran as well as china?

"I can imagine organising one lone gunman but the extent this intrigue had to extend to is beyond my comprehension."............xris

you said it was beyond your comprehension-it is not beyond mine.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 08:42 am
@salima,
salima;78108 wrote:


no, xris-i never said i believe bush gave the order. and i dont have any conclusions. i only said based partly on past horrors i dont find it difficult to believe most conspiracy theories are possible. and did you see that i mentioned iran as well as china?

"I can imagine organising one lone gunman but the extent this intrigue had to extend to is beyond my comprehension."............xris

you said it was beyond your comprehension-it is not beyond mine.
So what do you comprehend might have happened ?you are playing the myth maker,the teller of outrageous possibilities.
 
salima
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 09:35 am
@xris,
xris;78113 wrote:
So what do you comprehend might have happened ?you are playing the myth maker,the teller of outrageous possibilities.


no i am not-i am only telling you my opinion that what you have labeled as 'outrageous possibilities' dont seem outrageous to me. i cant dismiss them.

what i do comprehend is that i do not know what happened, and i am not sure i will ever know. i think anyone dedicated to finding out the truth for himself would probably have to devote his whole life to it. it wont be me.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 10:47 am
@salima,
salima;78125 wrote:
no i am not-i am only telling you my opinion that what you have labeled as 'outrageous possibilities' dont seem outrageous to me. i cant dismiss them.

what i do comprehend is that i do not know what happened, and i am not sure i will ever know. i think anyone dedicated to finding out the truth for himself would probably have to devote his whole life to it. it wont be me.
So what is your opinion?either you have a reason for your opinion or it is just a gut feeling?
 
salima
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 11:22 am
@xris,
xris;78135 wrote:
So what is your opinion?either you have a reason for your opinion or it is just a gut feeling?


my opinion is that it could have been a conspiracy.

my reasons for having that opinion is that such things (meaning sacrificing human beings and generating a state of fear for political agendas) are being done and have been done in the past in usa and other countries as well. it is easy to fool people when they are afraid and when they are even more afraid of what it would mean if they found out they couldnt trust those people who they feel are running the show. it simply does not sound at all unbelievable to me.

but i have no conclusion as to whether there was a conspiracy or not.

however, i did have a gut feeling that i will never forget on the day it happened. i was at work in the office that day, and suddenly someone turned on their radio (which wasnt allowed) and the reporter was going on about what had happened-people started to get up out of their seats and walk towards the sound, all of us in a sort of dream sequence, robotic mechanical way, and i felt like i was going into shock. the first thing that came to my mind was that it was done by the government. they needed a scapegoat and something to pin on him...actually i forgot about it afterwards for quite a few years until i heard people starting to say they doubted that all the truth had come out, talk was circulating around the messageboards, and one thing led to another.

but i cant trust my gut feelings-i have known them to be wrong.
 
Theaetetus
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 11:51 am
@astrotheological,
Well, no matter what explanation you buy into, they are all conspiracies. The thing that baffles me is that people can easily belief that the attacks could have pulled off by a handful of terrorists, but could not be pulled off by a handful of higher ups in the U.S. government/Pentagon. My best guess is that a handful of corrupt neo-cons conspired with Bin Laden and some of his cohorts. Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz are three of the most evil men in modern history and it would not surprise me in the least if they were involved in making sure the attacks went off.
 
xris
 
Reply Sat 18 Jul, 2009 11:53 am
@salima,
salima;78143 wrote:
my opinion is that it could have been a conspiracy.

my reasons for having that opinion is that such things (meaning sacrificing human beings and generating a state of fear for political agendas) are being done and have been done in the past in usa and other countries as well. it is easy to fool people when they are afraid and when they are even more afraid of what it would mean if they found out they couldnt trust those people who they feel are running the show. it simply does not sound at all unbelievable to me.

but i have no conclusion as to whether there was a conspiracy or not.

however, i did have a gut feeling that i will never forget on the day it happened. i was at work in the office that day, and suddenly someone turned on their radio (which wasnt allowed) and the reporter was going on about what had happened-people started to get up out of their seats and walk towards the sound, all of us in a sort of dream sequence, robotic mechanical way, and i felt like i was going into shock. the first thing that came to my mind was that it was done by the government. they needed a scapegoat and something to pin on him...actually i forgot about it afterwards for quite a few years until i heard people starting to say they doubted that all the truth had come out, talk was circulating around the messageboards, and one thing led to another.

but i cant trust my gut feelings-i have known them to be wrong.
BUT you are fueling a modern myth with no reasonable reason,you are ignoring the facts and reacting to some innate desire to believe something that logically is impossible.This is gossip and gossip can be very harmful.
 
salima
 
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 10:33 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus;78152 wrote:
Well, no matter what explanation you buy into, they are all conspiracies. The thing that baffles me is that people can easily belief that the attacks could have pulled off by a handful of terrorists, but could not be pulled off by a handful of higher ups in the U.S. government/Pentagon. My best guess is that a handful of corrupt neo-cons conspired with Bin Laden and some of his cohorts. Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz are three of the most evil men in modern history and it would not surprise me in the least if they were involved in making sure the attacks went off.


i do agree with you about those people you mention, though i hesitate to use the word evil. in my own way i would have said 'reprehensible, dishonest, cold-blooded' and numerous terms for which there are not enough characters alloted in this reply.

but i dont believe bin laden would have conspired with anyone from america. and if you remember it was a long time before he even took responsibility for the deaths. i wondered about that, because it seemed to me that it would have been a 'feather in his cap'...(and i do regret not being able to think of a better way of saying what i mean than a silly out of date cliche.) i also wondered why he later chose to break his silence.
 
pagan
 
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 10:58 am
@salima,
yes, the problem with being in the position of not believing powerful people of authority is that it leaves a terrible vacuum over something of the magnitude and horror of 9/11. And thus awful speculation as to what did happen. Even to the point of trying to get into the minds of the likes of bin laden. It is a very uncomfortable and scary experience.

Not least because it is eminently reasonable to recognise politics as a dirty business, where lies and half truths and exagerrations and ommissions are standard procedures out of necessity. By that i mean that any politician who adopted the position of telling the truth and the whole truth wouldn't last 5 minutes. The machine of politics itself would quickly kick them out.

further, most if not all of us, have and will experience in our places of work the practice of management keeping things secret and telling lies, particularily before radical change in the organisation and running of the business. This is very common and lets face it often understandable out of a greater necessity. I read the phrase 'out of a greater necessity' with a deep sense of worry when trying to understand 9/11 and the bush administration.

..... but it doesn't necessarily have to be evil. consider the following from wikepedia as at least a theoretical possibility....
Quote:

In his 1974 book The Ultra Secret, Group Captain F. W. Winterbotham asserted that the British government had advance warning of the attack from Ultra: intercepted German radio messages encrypted with the Enigma cipher machine and decoded by British cryptanalysts at Bletchley Park. He further claimed that Winston Churchill ordered that no defensive measures should be taken to protect Coventry, lest the Germans suspect that their cipher had been broken.
..... unfortunately i dont get the Winstone Churchill vibe from Bush and his cohorts.
 
Martin Timothy
 
Reply Fri 21 May, 2010 08:16 pm
@salima,
salima;78036 wrote:
3000 of their own citizens


Day of 9/11 - Part II: The Aftermath
02:48 PM 11 September 2001: Estimates of 50,000 dead in New York are being bandied about.

Quote:
The official death toll like the rest of the official tale is highly suspect!
Francesco Cossiga former President and Prime Minister of Italy admits to being a CIA asset, and says every one knows 911 was a false flag op carried out on behalf of Israel.

On 911, after confirmed strikes in New York, Norman Minetta US Transport Secretary advised that another aircraft was heading for Washington, sought shelter in a secure place wherein was Vice President Dick Cheney, who as ranking officer was receiving briefings as to the status of the approaching hijacked aircraft.

Minetta says a US serviceman who was updating the plane's location at ten mile intervals, asked Cheney if an order that the plane not be intercepted by the USAF still stood, and that Cheney gruffly replied "..off course it still stands, have you heard anything different."

Means the whole show was choreographed not by Osama bin Laden, nor by Sheik Khalid Mohamed, nor indeed Moussaoui but by Cheney and co, along with thousands of Jews who never showed up at work at the WTC on the day!

The Odigo evidence implicates thousands of holders of joint American Israeli citizenship, as both staying away from the WTC on 911, and for being investors in schemes centered at the Toronto and Frankfurt stock exchanges, that made hundreds of millions in profits based on foreknowledge of the plot.

Maybe Jews who knew the attacks were going to happen, sat up late in Melbourne and Sydney, on the evening of September 11 2001, to watch the show which began in those cities sometime around 00:02 AEST Sept 12.

Maybe it was common knowledge in some schools, picture teenage entrepreneurs sitting up late, stuffing their guts with pizza, watching their investments mature.

Frank Lowy of Westfield and Australian Soccer fame, was mixed up with Silverstein re the proposed development of the WTC site of which Silverstein was lessor, was there a gay and hearty at his Australian residence on the evening of 911, and were there late night food deliveries??
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 08:02 am
@Holiday20310401,
Aedes;24281 wrote:
What whole plot, that the Bush administration or CIA somehow staged it? They can't get together and tie their shoes. You honestly think that the Bush administration is competent enough organize and execute something like this, especially after being in office for only 7 months?


That is why they failed at keeping this a secret.

Holiday20310401;23938 wrote:
But Zetetic is right that there is no need to go to war for the oil.


Indeed they did not go there for the oil, for that pipe line is merely icing on the cake. They are there to keep the Middle East under control so as to secure the future of Israel.


It is all part of their grand project.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 08:06 am
@Soul Brother,
Soul Brother;167284 wrote:
That is why they failed at keeping this a secret.



Indeed they did not go there for the oil, for that pipe line is merely icing on the cake. They are there to keep the Middle East under control so as to secure the future of Israel.


It is all part of their grand project.


You certainly have it all figured out, I have to say that for you.
 
Soul Brother
 
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 08:20 am
@Martin Timothy,


This is all true, but I must correct you on the matter that these "jews" are not jews they are zionists. Israel does NOT represent judaism and the teachings of the Torah. But you are correct on the involvement of Israel, This is why the U.S backs them. They are both working on the same little project.

[ATTACH]126[/ATTACH]
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 08:22 am
@Soul Brother,
Soul Brother;167290 wrote:
This is all true, but I must correct you on the matter that these "jews" are not jews they are zionists. Israel does NOT represent judaism and the teachings of the Torah. But you are correct on the involvement of Israel, This is why the U.S them. They are both working on the same little project.

[ATTACH]126[/ATTACH]


You certainly seem to know much more about the matter than anyone who knows about the matter knows.
 
mark noble
 
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 09:59 am
@astrotheological,
Hi All,

Have any of you seen the "michael Moore" film/Docu' "Farenheit 9/11?

All the evidence is therein.

Thank you, and have a great everything, always.

Mark...
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 10:03 am
@mark noble,
mark noble;167310 wrote:
Hi All,

Have any of you seen the "michael Moore" film/Docu' "Farenheit 9/11?

All the evidence is therein.

Thank you, and have a great everything, always.

Mark...


Now there is a reliable source. Thank you for mentioning it . I will rush right over and get it.
 
 

 
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