Senior cleric declares Fatwa on terrorism

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xris
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 01:25 pm
@Jackofalltrades phil,
I shall ignore that post that is not worthy of report or reason. Im sure he has his problems, that I could never resolve. I am not in the habit of referring to scriptures, there are many for those interested to research, the web is stuffed full of them. Choose any one link on Islamic scriptures and it shows a bias. I am clever enough to paste and post, what would that prove? We are all experts in this web of information.

One imam will tell you Islam is peaceful faith but another will demand jihad. Can we as kaffirs be knowledgeable enough to dispute one or the other? I know enough that they dont agree and this is or should be our concern. If they can not decide, then we must believe there is a danger that Islam is prepared to commit violent Jihad to advance its cause.
 
Marat phil
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 01:41 pm
@xris,
xris;148305 wrote:
I shall ignore that post that is not worthy of report or reason. Im sure he has his problems, that I could never resolve. I am not in the habit of referring to scriptures, there are many for those interested to research, the web is stuffed full of them. Choose any one link on Islamic scriptures and it shows a bias. I am clever enough to paste and post, what would that prove? We are all experts in this web of information.


[SIZE="3"]The true Belief[/SIZE] is belief of self-renunciation and Love. God of Christians demands "to sacrifice the unique son". "Enemies of the person - its relatives". The Christianity is religion of each immortal person. It is SPIRIT religion.

[SIZE="3"]The false religion[/SIZE] revenges for the killed sons. Revenges for murders of fathers and ancestors. It is FLESH religion. Islam is religion of "ancestors". It is FLESH religion.
.
 
Jackofalltrades phil
 
Reply Sun 4 Apr, 2010 11:27 pm
@Marat phil,
xris;148305 wrote:

One imam will tell you Islam is peaceful faith but another will demand jihad. Can we as kaffirs be knowledgeable enough to dispute one or the other? I know enough that they dont agree and this is or should be our concern. If they can not decide, then we must believe there is a danger that Islam is prepared to commit violent Jihad to advance its cause.


So, we have decided not to pursue the two questions/issues as posed in the end of my post. I am sure if we need to assess and evaluate the real problem, one needs to come back to these pertinent questions on finding the real reasons or causes. Blaming the scriptures or a religion is the easiest way to put blame. Thats the commoners case at a bar or tea shop.

Anyway, your apprehension is quite valid. If they disagree with each other, one may well be advised to take the path of wisdom, peace and salvation. The individuals and the community should introspect and have to decide whats good and bad. You speak to educated muslims, and you will realise that they are not depended on imams and maulanas to interpret their scriptures. The sunni's has traditionally been orthodox, and the shia's has deviated and adjusted their lifestyle according to wants of the times. ones individuality, ones emotions, etc. The sufi's as a sect is not dependent on the scriptures.

On the other hand the Wahhabis have taken to orthodoxy so much that they are interpreting the scriptures 'as it is'. This is similar to what happens in almost all religious communities. In christiandom we have the orthodox's, the protestants, the baptists, the catholics, the mormons. Some of these, also interpret the bible 'as it is'. We also see this in Hindu scriptures, we have people who interpret the Gita, 'as it is'.

The hollowness of orthodoxy will be exposed in time. One should understand that the people who are getting influenced by orthodox interpretations are the one who are misled into thinking that suicide bombing is justified. So also there are sects in America that spews out hatred and violence in the name of christan God.

just like to versions or sects believing what they think is true, exists in Christian faith so also their would be differences in opinion in a Sunni imam, or a cleric of a shia. What islam needs today is to escape from the stranglehold of these orthodox interpretators of the Holy Koran. One solution is Right Education, Self dependency, Secular Polity and Respect to all Religions.

I should warn, as limited as i can see, the western world should put its act together, if they want an end to terrorism. It is phenomenon, unlike any other social phenomenon, and threatens to a clash of civilisation.

And, the wise people in such forums like this one should be doing more reading - the right kind, instead of relying on TV analysts, and column writers; they are paid to instigate opinions and evoke reactions.


Marat;148309 wrote:
The true Belief is belief of self-renunciation and Love. God of Christians demands "to sacrifice the unique son". "Enemies of the person - its relatives". The Christianity is religion of each immortal person. It is SPIRIT religion.

The false religion revenges for the killed sons. Revenges for murders of fathers and ancestors. It is FLESH religion. Islam is religion of "ancestors". It is FLESH religion.
.


This is a very interesting view-point.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 05:10 am
@Jackofalltrades phil,
Its a very optomistic view you have taken and I hope it has more than wishful thinking in its consideration. I see the problem not of the moderate majority but the extreme views emanating from such countries as KSA . They have the money and the influence to expand their extreme views of Islam, far from its roots. They are influencing the Muslims in the UK as they are the ones building new and large expensive Mosques in the UK and other European countries. There is price the british muslims pay in allowing them to be used in this manner.The extreme views they hold are allowed to be expressed and the overwhelming desire they hold is for Islam to be a world faith and the whole world an Islamic community. They dont tolerate other sects of Islam, shia are not even allowed to build a mosque in KSA and worshipping Christ is almost impossible. Extremists are not dangerous in themselves, its the support they receive and the encouragement from certain wealthy individuals that give them power. You see it with Islamic schools where students are invited and receive their education without payment. I say again its a problem for moderate muslims as much as for the general population. I might add in case there is any doubt, I am referring to the Wahhabists, who are in the main from KSA.
 
metacristi
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 06:09 am
@xris,
[quote=xris]I am not in the habit of referring to scriptures, there are many for those interested to research, the web is stuffed full of them. Choose any one link on Islamic scriptures and it shows a bias. I am clever enough to paste and post, what would that prove? We are all experts in this web of information.[/quote]
xris wrote:


One imam will tell you Islam is peaceful faith but another will demand jihad. Can we as kaffirs be knowledgeable enough to dispute one or the other? I know enough that they dont agree and this is or should be our concern. If they can not decide, then we must believe there is a danger that Islam is prepared to commit violent Jihad to advance its cause.



Perfect objectivity does not exist even in Science. Nonetheless we can still define a standard of Rationality (having Science at basis but not limited by it: one can argue that we can talk of moral progress etc), albeit openly accepted as fallible. Religions are by no means above Rational scrutiny. The different islamic traditions are no exception and can be studied at least in some aspects (whether they are essentially violent or not at the core is definitely one of them) using our best 'tool' to make sense of the observed facts: existing scientific methodologies. No need to resort to muslim 'guidance' (actually they have never really proved capable to apply critical thinking, essential methodology in science, to the basis of their religion). Thus we can say at least which imam is closer to the spirit of islam as taught by the qur'an and lived by Muhammad (although the 'turbans of the mind' of political correctness impedes currently many academic scholars to tell the whole truth). Now if you talk of the average person, who knows basically nothing or quite a few of islam, well I'd say that in the absence of serious investigation all those persons should remain agnostic about islam whilst still judging the terrorists (I don't think your conclusion follow). Happily any person capable of critical thinking & logic and accustomed with scientific thinking can easily benefit from the works of quite many intellectual ex-muslims, rational critics of islam, who know very well their qur'an (and other Islamic traditions); one can always check their conclusions against the text of the qur'an and other Islamic traditions.

Compare the study of islam by ibn Warraq for example Why I am not a Muslim* with the (pseudo)science of the so called islamic scholars, the methodologies used make the whole difference and a rational thinker can easily see which one deserve credit (islamic scholars have never really evolved beyond the Middle Ages; they are way behind here when compared with the situation in Christianity where Biblical Studies used critical thinking applied to the Bible even before the dawn of Enlightenment)...Posting links to their studies about islam is no mistake. Many muslims may be indeed non violent but this is rather in spite of the doctrines of islam; unfortunately many of them are prone to a rapid evolution toward much dogmatic views (they still see the qur'an as the exact and eternal word of allah) once they finally understand for example that there is a fundamental tension between classical islam and liberal democracy. Existing evidence points clearly toward the fact that the model of the Middle East will move to the West if muslims ever 'take over' (the demographic evolution in some european countries make this probable via liberal democracy itself at the beginning): sharia is from allah, liberal democracy is a mere human concept, for believing muslims (a vast majority) there is no problem of choice once they understand that liberal democracy is not really compatible with islam (I'd say that at least a partial islamization is rather unavoidable if muslims will ever 'take over'). My 'bigotry' and 'irrational fear' (islamophobia) exists only in the rich imagination of muslims (or western apologists of islam), in fact the real bigots are in their ranks (not a surprise given the double standards advocated by the islamic traditions).


*actually most of the book is online:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030821132050/http://www.worldalternative.org/english/religion/islam/why_i_am_not_a_muslim_rushdi_affair.htm (ch1)
The origins of Islam (ch 2)
The Problem of Sources (ch 3)
Islam Alternative (ch 4)
http://web.archive.org/web/20030821132400/http://www.worldalternative.org/english/religion/islam/why_i_am_not_a_muslim_the-koran.htm (ch 5)
ISIS | Center for Inquiry (ch 6)
Is Islam Compatible With Democracy and Human Rights? (ch 7)
Islam Watch - "Jihad, the Arab Conquests and the Position of Non-Muslim Subjects" by Ibn Warraq (ch 9)
Christianism, "Christianity", Islamism Part II (extracts from the whole book)
 
Marat phil
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 06:24 am
@jeeprs,
Don't speak about liberal values. Islamic fanatics hate - not "liberalism", they hate Christians (all faiths), atheists, and Buddhists ("pagans"). You can be whom want - the conservative, the liberal, the communist, the nazi. If you - not the Moslem - you enemy. If you accept Islam, you will be the person of second grade, because you not Arab (in islamic world order).
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 06:27 am
@metacristi,
Im always tempted to mention child marriages, the conquests of India and the millions of Hindu murders but this automatically leads to me being called islamophobic. It does not happen if I criticise christianity and the crusades, I usually get others joining in the condemnation. We have a situation that anything critical of Islam is characterised with the most venomous of attacks against me. We have witnessed it here on this thread and no doubt it will continue.

The little I have learned about Islam from being a member of UMMHA forum, has taught me the extremist exists everywhere, even amongst us. He is obstructed by many moderate Muslim only wishing to live in peace and prosperity but the extremist message is gaining ground by the intervention of KSA money, funding UK Mosques.

---------- Post added 04-05-2010 at 07:38 AM ----------

Marat;148508 wrote:
Don't speak about liberal values. Islamic fanatics hate - not "liberalism", they hate Christians (all faiths), atheists, and Buddhists ("pagans"). You can be whom want - the conservative, the liberal, the communist, the nazi. If you - not the Moslem - you enemy. If you accept Islam, you will be the person of second grade, because you not Arab (in islamic world order).
Yes the Arab has little regard for his Muslim brother, if he comes from Pakistan or India. Look at Dubai they treat them like slaves, building their hotels and luxury apartments. They are trapped by low wages unable to even return home. The, African Arabs, kills fellow muslims in Darfur and no Muslim country even complains.
 
Jackofalltrades phil
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 08:58 am
@jeeprs,
xris,

The KSA kind of political philosophy in the guise of religious sanctity, is a problem area. No doubt about that. They have oil, they got money, and they become rich, and they can only get more rich by fuelling conflict in many regions. (Not going into details, now).

Now, please understand the difference. It is politics all the way. It has got nothing to do with religion. If i have to create conflict, anywhere, i will create a situation to exploit the conditions. won't I?, Now, if I have to do that, i would exploit the best available tool, to easily have pointsman or frontsman to do the dirty job for me. It just happens that I may think of using religion to create those agents. It is easy and efficient means. Every military General uses this weak point. Whether it is in the name of freedom, nationalism, tribehood, democracy, or religion.

Religion has two aspects, unfortunately. One is the political and social side of religion, and the other is the private and spiritual side of religion. The political side of religion - is used by ambitious and influential powers to further political or social gains. We may call it political capital. In the bargain, the religious fundamentals get a 'theological gain'; thats there, no doubt, but thats just part of a problem.

It is similar to the way, when communists (and nazis too) used social nationalism as a rallying point to take over all private endeavours and enterprises (by sending out a tirade, propaganda and campaign among teh people suggesting that all private money over and above the requirements of needs are fruitless to the individual, and that the state should have control over it. )

The so called fundamentalist regimes are running a similar campaign. Here, instead of social nationalism, they invoke pan-religious fraternity which is under some kind of a threat. Thus invoking a fear in the core of their threatened identity. A perception, perhaps. But in politics and religion, perception does matter. Therefore, my friend please realise that the facade of a religious dress-up is shown to invoke or provoke the religious which is the only source or pool from where men, agents or warriors can be created overnight. This is the game-plan. A cunning way, though. And we need to tackle those upfront, perhaps militarily too, if it comes to that.

But, you see, attacking the religion is not the way about it. We fall into the same trap, the cunning have created. The jihadis and those faces are created to invoke a sense of fear and revenge in the opposite sides or the targets. We see their faces a 100 times repeated in the Tv channels, and we think they are allover and are soon going to take over the planet. This mind-set needs correction. You fall into the trap the instigator wants you to believe in. You are already led to believe, by some imams statements, and christian bigots, that it is Islam that is bad or incompatible.

You are repeating the mistake of taking the symptons as the disease. The most external form/facade/face is being seen as those of prophesing a particular faith. The simple logic is inductive in application. From the particular to the general. So what do you get, a muslim face on screen means that the reason lies in the islamic cultural background, and hence Islam is the root cause.

This kind of reasoning is helping the fundamentalists causes. The moment you at the religion or the scriptures, that very moment you have an agent provocateur brainwashing another young disgusted youth in the parched streets of the islamic world to get ready for jihad. This vicious circle will continue, as long as there is a reason for an emotion to be exploited.

So whats needs to be done........ One needs to focus on the conditions of those who are hoodwinked into suicide bombing missions. We need to know why these youths are unemployed, uneducated, underprivileged. We need to tackle the religious argument sepearately. We need to tackle the security issue seperately.

Todays war is not going to be on battlefields. It will be in the streets. We need to enhance security awareness, debrief the youth and the victims. We also need to see how one culture does not degrade the others culture.

The fundamentalists are also waging a war against a liberal society. Therefore, it is all the more rational to see that liberal societies are sensitive to closed societies like the KSA of the world. They need to be just. Regional political conflict should be solved in a fair and just manner, and not drag their feat. Military interest, and military economies are running the west's foreign agendas. we need to look at where conflict resolutions can be undertaken for peaceful solutions. And therefore i had said that we need to put our acts together.

If there is sincerity, and honesty, than the suicide bombers will not line up outside mosques and nondescript buildings and basements. If the recruitment stops the bombing will stop. Non of these hardcore imams will ask their own self or son to go and kill themsleves. Thats their hypocrisy, and selfishness.

For a just solution, it cant be anyone's case to put salt on the wounds, and further aggravate the problem. Thus giving fear a free reign.

Make peace, have peace.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 09:30 am
@Jackofalltrades phil,
I dont think we blame the majority of Muslims. Those I have met are more intent on bringing their families up and keeping their heads down. I dont fear them but I'm aware of the dangers. The wahhabists are intent on a worldly Islamic community, that is there long term agenda. Jihad, peaceful jihad, has to be performed by all Muslims , its an essential commitment. Just show interest in Islam with a Muslim and see the reaction.

Its not just Islam, its all religions that try to impose its views and values on the secular society. Islam is here with us and I can see the demands arising from their presence. Sharia is being used without authority and asking for official approval. Many muslims deplore this move, they moved away from its injustice, now they see it following them. We cant shy away from these questions and these extremists taking advantage of disadvantaged young muslims.
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 09:46 am
@xris,
I think we were briefly seculiar and free in a part of the world. I am pessimistic.
Multi-mmedia speeds up the proces; not accurate

In confusion People go to Temple, Bank or Home.

What is a senior cleric ?

Who is my senior Cleric >
 
Marat phil
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 09:59 am
@jeeprs,
Wahhabists is not against liberalism. They against the SIN.
("Freedom is reason of sin ").
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 10:23 am
@Marat phil,
Marat;148553 wrote:
Wahhabists is not against liberalism. They against the SIN.
("Freedom is reason of sin ").
 
metacristi
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 10:41 am
@Marat phil,
Marat;148508 wrote:
Don't speak about liberal values. Islamic fanatics hate - not "liberalism", they hate Christians (all faiths), atheists, and Buddhists ("pagans"). You can be whom want - the conservative, the liberal, the communist, the nazi. If you - not the Moslem - you enemy. If you accept Islam, you will be the person of second grade, because you not Arab (in islamic world order).


No one says that they don't. The problem is that fundamental muslim doctrines have little compatibility with the ideas of Enlightenment (liberal democracy, the necessity to apply critical thinking to the basis of religion, basic human rights, freedom of thought/expression, freedom to choose your religion or to not be religious at all etc) which made it possible to 'be whom you want'. This is why the muslim world has never known a real muslim Enlightenment, and unfortunately all existing evidence points that islam will never develop it (without external help).

That's why we have to tell the truth about islam, using Reason and critical thinking. This is the only way to create real muslim moderates*, capable to block the instauration of sharia (all sharia must be rejected, moreover islam must be reformed in non trivial ways) even in the worst scenario that muslims become majoritary in non-muslim countries (in order to keep the right to be 'whom you want', even a partial introduction of sharia in the constitution will curb fundamental human rights, just look at the muslim dominated countries, I mean the most liberal of them; even in Turkey). The existence of some hate preachers and terrorists is only a particular case of a much bigger problem with islam.


*at least among those in non muslim countries, sugarcoating islam can only lead to more and more unreasonable demands and, very probably, islamization on long enough term if they become sizeable in non muslim lands (demographical prognoses are far from being reassuring in some european countries if the status-quo is maintained).

PS By the way wahhabism has nothing in common with democracy (probably you intended to say a world caliphate?)
 
Jackofalltrades phil
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 11:36 am
@xris,
xris;148547 wrote:
I dont think we blame the majority of Muslims. Those I have met are more intent on bringing their families up and keeping their heads down. I dont fear them but I'm aware of the dangers. The wahhabists are intent on a worldly Islamic community, that is there long term agenda. Jihad, peaceful jihad, has to be performed by all Muslims , its an essential commitment. Just show interest in Islam with a Muslim and see the reaction.

Its not just Islam, its all religions that try to impose its views and values on the secular society. Islam is here with us and I can see the demands arising from their presence. Sharia is being used without authority and asking for official approval. Many muslims deplore this move, they moved away from its injustice, now they see it following them. We cant shy away from these questions and these extremists taking advantage of disadvantaged young muslims.


.........BINGO!!
 
metacristi
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 12:48 pm
@xris,
xris;148547 wrote:
I dont think we blame the majority of Muslims. Those I have met are more intent on bringing their families up and keeping their heads down. I dont fear them but I'm aware of the dangers. The wahhabists are intent on a worldly Islamic community, that is there long term agenda. Jihad, peaceful jihad, has to be performed by all Muslims , its an essential commitment. Just show interest in Islam with a Muslim and see the reaction.

Its not just Islam, its all religions that try to impose its views and values on the secular society. Islam is here with us and I can see the demands arising from their presence. Sharia is being used without authority and asking for official approval. Many muslims deplore this move, they moved away from its injustice, now they see it following them. We cant shy away from these questions and these extremists taking advantage of disadvantaged young muslims.



Can we be confident that the alleged 'moderate muslims' you met will prevent the introduction of sharia (at least partial) in the Constitution (if muslims ever become majoritary in non muslim lands, with islam more or less like today)? I do not deny that there may be some real moderates among them but let's be honest they are a minority, existing evidence points that at that time they will have to quietly 'hide' deep down their own conscience (as probably some do currently in the muslim dominated world). Finally even if real democracy will be kept in a first phase (unlikely anyway) the example of Turkey show us plenty that the islamist* pressure will be huge: a rapid switch at least to a partial sharia-ization looks very probable (at that time the influence of western ideas will be weaker and, especially, there will be no reason to continue with the mental gymnastics that islam give the same rights to non-muslims etc). No one has the intention to discriminate people, they must benefit of all rights in accordance with modern values, but the ideology of islam is not like that of the other religions (no other religion has a 'built-in' political program; mandatory to be put in practice sooner or later) and deserve the strongest criticism possible. Falling into the trap of postmodernist political correctness (by assuming that the doctrine of islam is just like that of the other religions) can only ease islamization; appeasement of islam is no solution on long term, unfortunately the unreformed islam will never be a 'melting pot' factor, moreover the laws of the land will always be at risk.

*islamists are not only those who want the implementation of the whole sharia but all those who want to introduce at least parts of sharia in the Constitution (a vast majority of muslims unfortunately)
 
Marat phil
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 12:58 pm
@jeeprs,
[SIZE="3"]In EU very weak policy concerning emigrants.
Any fool can arrive to EU and make crime.
And they can make nothing[/SIZE].
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 01:26 pm
@Marat phil,
Marat;148553 wrote:
Wahhabists is not against liberalism. They against the SIN.
("Freedom is reason of sin ").


Except that the sin is liberalism and freedom.
 
xris
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 01:35 pm
@metacristi,
metacristi;148586 wrote:
Can we be confident that the alleged 'moderate muslims' you met will prevent the introduction of sharia (at least partial) in the Constitution (if muslims ever become majoritary in non muslim lands, with islam more or less like today)? I do not deny that there may be some real moderates among them but let's be honest they are a minority, existing evidence points that at that time they will have to quietly 'hide' deep down their own conscience (as probably some do currently in the muslim dominated world). Finally even if real democracy will be kept in a first phase (unlikely anyway) the example of Turkey show us plenty that the islamist* pressure will be huge: given that probably at that time the influence of USA and western Europe as it is today (that's what keep the turkish democracy still alive, at limit) will be seriously weakened among muslims a rapid switch at least to a partial sharia-ization looks very probable. No one has the intention to discriminate people, they must benefit of all rights in accordance with modern values, but the ideology of islam is not like that of the other religions (no other religion has a 'built-in' political program mandatory to be put in practice sooner or later) and deserve the strongest criticism possible. Falling into the trap of postmodernist political correctness (by assuming that islam is just like the other religions) can only ease islamization; appeasement of islam is no solution on long term, unfortunately the unreformed islam will never be a 'melting pot' factor.

*islamists are not only those who want the implementation of the whole sharia but all those who want to introduce at least parts of sharia in the Constitution (a vast majority of muslims unfortunately)
I dont think your fears are unfounded but we are considered as fear mongers, islamophobic and racially motivated. Many who share our fears and are moderate, keep quite for fear of being branded with the idea that they represent an extremist right wing attitude. Moderate muslims have not the balls to stand up and tell the extremist to shut up. There are sharia courts for criminal offences in london now, why should we tolerate this attack on our constitution our legal system? If they want sharia go to a country that exerts that legal frame work.
 
kennethamy
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 01:41 pm
@xris,
xris;148599 wrote:
I dont think your fears are unfounded but we are considered as fear mongers, islamophobic and racially motivated. Many who share our fears and are moderate, keep quite for fear of being branded with the idea that they represent an extremist right wing attitude. Moderate muslims have not the balls to stand up and tell the extremist to shut up. There are sharia courts for criminal offences in london now, why should we tolerate this attack on our constitution our legal system? If they want sharia go to a country that exerts that legal frame work.


This would be a bigoted thing to say, but only if Sharia could fit in with our Constitution and our mores. But it obviously cannot be.
 
metacristi
 
Reply Mon 5 Apr, 2010 03:29 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy;148602 wrote:
This would be a bigoted thing to say, but only if Sharia could fit in with our Constitution and our mores. But it obviously cannot be.


islam has always rejected it: "Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, John Adams and James Madison: Young America's Fight with Islamism" by Andrew Walden. The only difference is that at that time no muslim made it a secret, the current, more peaceful, interpretations of the islamic traditions do not have more than 150 years. But the past views can always return in force if the islamic world becomes powerful again (actually it happened already in Iran).


The underlying problem for the West is not Islamic fundamentalism. It is Islam, a different civilization whose people are convinced of the superiority of their culture and are obsessed with the inferiority of their power. - Samuel P. Huntington

---------- Post added 04-05-2010 at 11:33 PM ----------

xris;148599 wrote:
Many who share our fears and are moderate, keep quite for fear of being branded with the idea that they represent an extremist right wing attitude. Moderate muslims have not the balls to stand up and tell the extremist to shut up. There are sharia courts for criminal offences in london now, why should we tolerate this attack on our constitution our legal system? If they want sharia go to a country that exerts that legal frame work.



As far as I see things seem to change in Britain* (Former Archbishop of Canterbury Cautions against Islamic Immigration | FrontPage Magazine), people at least began to show their discontent. But I agree that what the former archbishop proposes is not the best solution (it's indeed discriminatory). What about educating the muslims that islam is not so perfect? This comes from a supporter of the left...Certainly this kind of politics is utterly wrong...


*of course we have Pat Condell for a long time now Smile

YouTube - Appeasing Islam

The idea that Islam is a "peaceful religion hijacked by extremists" is a dangerous fantasy and it is now a particularly dangerous fantasy for Muslims to indulge. It is not at all clear how we should proceed in our dialogue with the Muslim world, but deluding ourselves with euphemisms is not the answer. - Sam Harris
 
 

 
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